Episode 1.6 – What Is An Introvert? – Inside Voice: Freelance and Voice Over Success As An Introvert

This Episode:

What actually is an introvert? Heck if we know! But, this week, we get into what “introversion” means, what some of the different types of introvert you might be, and we discuss some of the “popular science” ideas of introversion… and really explore the definition of introversion through our own personal experiences.

We also talk about “good enough”, taxes and… mortgages? Why are we talking about mortgages?

Also, Brad faces a tough social choice as an introvert… how does he handle it? How does he feel about it?

And we’re still searching for the perfect ending tagline!

Sophia Umarek – the quite power of introverts

Louise’s Website
Brad’s Website

Transcript:

00:00.45
Brad: Hey Louise happy happy day pretty good good how you doing.

00:01.65
Louise: Hi Brad how’s it going happy day. Yeah, not too bad, not too bad. Um, it’s been sort of a like a slow week workwise. But I’ve been doing um. Like bookkeeping kind of stuff tax stuff. Butch. You know, not the funnest but needs to be done so I’m partially sort of grateful for a little bit of a slowdown. Yeah.

00:23.80
Brad: Um.

00:29.37
Brad: Yeah, that’s the yeah like that’s the not fun part of freelancing right? like yeah well it’s I guess you can also say marketing is the not fun. You can also say networking is it not fun part I guess but we just have all these.

00:36.70
Louise: Running your own business. Yeah small business. Yeah.

00:46.35
Louise: Yep, yeah.

00:48.24
Brad: Pieces and parts that are part of the part of the job part of the business that aren’t recording And yeah yeah.

00:53.30
Louise: Um, yeah, and they can be a struggle right? like these are things that you have to learn as you go and ah. I Always remind myself and I know I’ve said this before um so sounding like a broken record is like you you could wait for to have everything dialed in and try to be as prepared and as perfect at every single aspect of running a small business but you would never start so it’s.

01:19.30
Brad: Um, yep, that’s right.

01:22.50
Louise: You know you just at some point you’ve got to dive in and be like ok I’m just going have to figure some of this out as I go along and you know inevitably probably make a lot of mistakes and get frustrated then all those things.

01:29.22
Brad: Um, yeah, and yeah, and and not yeah and not let the enemy be the or they mean though, the perfect be the enemy of the good enough or whatever. But but I’m and oh really, oh yeah.

01:39.50
Louise: Oh wait say that again because that’s I don’t know if I’ve heard that one I mine is progress over perfection. So what’s yours.

01:47.27
Brad: Ahha Yeah, don’t let perfection be the enemy of good enough like it’s like yeah I I may be that I may have that a slightly wrong, but that’s the gist of it like it’s like don’t let your insistence on being perfect.

01:53.61
Louise: Don’t let perfection be the enemy of good enough. Ok.

02:05.80
Brad: Destroy your progress forward as doing it good enough because good enough is good enough right? There’s not good enough but good enough is good enough and that doesn’t mean good enough can’t be better but good at yeah, yeah, or even years into it. Yeah yeah.

02:09.83
Louise: Yeah. Yeah, you don’t have to have every single thing sorted out right away I certainly did not or even 4 years exactly.

02:25.58
Brad: Or even years into it. Ah I’m I’m trying to figure out speaking of ah taxes and stuff I’m trying to figure out right now. How to do quarterly filing because until up through 23 I Just sort of I’m a sole Proprietor. So I just. Have sort of been and we have an accountant and he knows how to do all this Stuff. So I Give him all of my expenses and all of my revenue and you know very detailed, um, ah documentation using by the way, not a sponsor but.

02:45.84
Louise: Yeah.

03:00.80
Brad: voiceoverview.com for me makes it super easy to keep track of all of that. Um I’m just a big fan of theirs. Ah and you know and he knows how to do all of this stuff and he he he can. He usually tells us how much of our taxes that we’re paying are due to.

03:04.86
Louise: Nice.

03:19.60
Brad: My business revenue right? because exactly and because I set aside ah you know every dollar I make I set aside thirty three cents so I have a separate pool of money set aside for taxes and then when tax time comes what I owe from.

03:19.65
Louise: Because you and lacy are filing together as a married couple. Ok.

03:38.33
Louise: Take out of that I do a some very similar thing. Yes, yeah.

03:38.75
Brad: My business I take out of that and pay and then I’m not yeah yeah, and that that’s sort of the recommended way to do it right? like? ah.

03:46.76
Louise: Yeah, and the quarterly thing I think they they’re kind of going on a presumption are they not of it’s an estimate So that’s the sort of downside because I mean we’re the upside of um, being in business for yourself is you are.

03:51.10
Brad: Um, it’s an estimate. Yeah, that’s that’s my yeah now.

04:03.97
Louise: Um, you’re not tax until the end of the year so you you can spend your pretax. How do you explain it. You spend your pretax earnings for like on expenses and things not your post tax earnings. So in other words.

04:19.68
Louise: Um, let’s say if you made $50000 and you spent 10000 if you were employed. You wouldn’t be spending 10000 out of 50000 you’d be spending it out of the the net right? Do you know what? I mean so when you’re taxed quarterly. You’re sort of missing out on an advantage in a way.

04:29.92
Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah I Guess So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right? I Think for me though if I can once I get it I shouldn’t say if I can once I get it figured out.

04:38.40
Louise: Even though you might get a return. You know what? I mean it’s not as the money’s not yours for that period of time. So I a yeah.

04:53.18
Brad: It. It’ll just make it easier because I’m not well and here’s another thing though. So I I have my savings my tax. You know what? I’m saving for tax is I have that in a high yield high interest rate savings Account. So I’m. And while I’m sitting on it waiting for the end of the year I’m yeah I’m getting 4% interest on that. Ah so I would yeah, that’s right, That’s right? Yeah, Ok so I think I just reexplained.

05:12.25
Louise: Exactly you? yeah whereas if you pay it and then get the return. You’ve missed out on all that time that you could have been earning the and interest the government’s making the interest on it instead.

05:30.81
Brad: Exactly what you had just explained I’m sorry well it just what you said triggered it My how it’s affecting me and then yeah.

05:31.23
Louise: Yeah, but I feel like you explained it in a way better way than I did. Yeah, and obviously to anyone who’s a saying we are not tax professionals in case that wasn’t completely clear. This is not advice. This is us just exactly if any.

05:47.44
Brad: Ah, yeah, in case in case, any of that. Yeah, in case, anyone mistook any of that for advice I wouldn’t do that. Ah.

05:56.34
Louise: Has tax advice. They’d like to impart please email us at contact at inside voice. Ah or wait is it the inside voice podcast.com got our own email addressing correct on that. Ok yeah.

06:02.84
Brad: Um, also point out that. Yeah yeah, yeah, also it’s important to note that I’m in the US and you’re in Canada so taxes. Don’t always work the same in both but it’s surprising how much they do, um.

06:14.94
Louise: No, they definitely do not Yes, there’s some crossover there for sure. Yeah.

06:20.50
Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, ah, ah as surprising to me and I don’t want to get into this but I just heard it on the radio and it reminded me of the time you explained to me how mortgages work different in Canada than the Us because Us you get like a 30 year fixed rate canada you guys have to renegotiate your mortgage. Every. 3 to 5 years or something like that.

06:39.31
Louise: Um, well so I think you can get up to a 7 year I think you used to be able to get 10 year mortgages but I think it’s seven years now is the max. Um, and it depends on whether you are doing like um.

06:46.35
Brad: Yeah, that’s crazy heat.

06:54.47
Louise: If you’re doing fixed rate or variable rate like I think variable rate mortgages are generally shorter I’m not really sure and yeah, so even if you have a 25 year amateurs a am little your so your mortgage payments are going to be based on your amortization. Um.

06:59.10
Brad: Yeah, yeah.

07:13.10
Louise: Length. So let’s say 25 years but the actual mortgage term is never 25 years so if you got in at let’s say a really low rate. Um, you know five years ago or whatever. Let’s say you got in at 2.99% or two percent or whatever.

07:19.37
Brad: Yeah, yeah.

07:32.60
Louise: And now you’re going to renegotiate right now as the interest rates have gone up. There are a lot of people who now cannot afford their mortgage payments. So I didn’t realize that the United States differed that way.

07:38.10
Brad: Um, yeah, yeah, that’s crazy. Yeah, so like usually here it’s a I don’t know this is way off topic. But it’s still interesting and so if we can just indulge for a Second. Ah. In the Us it’s either usually there 15 or 30% or 30 year mortgage and the expectation is you’ll have paid off the mortgage by the end of that’s or sold the property. So. It’s not like 15 years and then we renegotiate for another fifteen years like if if if.

08:00.17
Louise: Um.

08:11.23
Louise: If you get in at 2.99% you’re locked into that that rate for the whole 25 years which is we just yeah, that’s not how it works so how it works here.

08:13.11
Brad: If yeah, yeah, yep, yep, my.

08:22.20
Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, or a 15 years like we you know if we if we had a if we have a 15 year mortgage it locks it into that two point and I think I think ours is actually a little lower than that. Ah, my wife is super smart with this stuff way more than me. So um. Should ask her to help me with the quarterly file she might figure it out better than I get um I’ll just cheat off her. Ah the idea is that in 15 years we would have paid it off at that rate or or if it’s a 30 year mortgage paid it off it by the end of that at that rate. Yeah.

08:52.45
Louise: Yeah, no, it’s not the same here every every time you re every time you not renegotiate, but like your term comes up for renewal every time you renew? Um, it’s at the rate that is currently being offered even though it’s.

09:04.82
Brad: Um, yeah.

09:10.00
Louise: Then then your payments are based on whatever that ah lengths the amortization is at so if you started at 25 years and you’re keeping up on everything and then now you’re renegotiating or renewing for the next twenty years but it’s still based at anyways.

09:25.25
Brad: Yeah, but the downside of this for us anyway, like if you were if you have a mortgage at 2.4 right? you you don’t want to give that up when interest rates go up so say interest rates go up to 5% or whatever. If we sold our house. We’d be host because we’d be losing that really really sweet interest rate and we’d have to you know finance the next house at the much higher rate. Yeah, okay, yeah.

09:49.91
Louise: Yeah, and so a lot of people are in that situation right now in this country because and trust rates have gone up and people are looking to you know their mortgage term is coming up for renewal and they’re hooped. They can’t a lot of people can’t afford the monthly payments now. So.

10:03.19
Brad: Yeah, yeah.

10:09.45
Louise: Um, yeah, it’s interesting How the systems differ that way.

10:13.45
Brad: Yeah, so that’s interesting I apologize I know that has nothing to do with introversion voiceover or freelancing. Yeah I will say now that so now that the the podcast is out and we have real human beings listening to at high. Um.

10:15.72
Louise: So cat I’m going to edit all of this out now I.

10:31.35
Brad: People. Ah, it’s it change it kind of hits a little different it changes things a little bit recording.

10:36.53
Louise: Yeah, it’s it’s exciting and it’s also now I feel like um, it’s like the reality is sort of sunka. It’s like be careful what you wish for it now. It’s like oh actual people are entrusted.

10:42.70
Brad: Yeah, yeah, like I I’m I’m not going to suggest that we should have just kept recording them and not releasing them and just doing it for our own personal interest. But yeah that to me that’s like.

10:53.98
Louise: Because that’s kind of what I thought might happen I was like kind of secretly hoping that it would go nowhere. Yeah I’m just like can we just keep this in the guy little collection of my cassette box in the back. Yeah.

11:00.89
Brad: Totally like an introvert thing to do right like have this big idea. Yeah yeah, and do all the work to make it is good as you can and then to be so intimidated to share that with the world that you just you just never do. But.

11:11.54
Louise: Yeah. Yeah, it’s like getting the sense of accomplishment from the planning of it but not the execution. Yeah, so often? Yeah, but ok, just on that note.

11:21.97
Brad: Yeah, exactly Yeah yeah and I fall into that. So so often. Um, ah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

11:32.30
Louise: I do want to give a few little shoutouts to people who’ve been really kind and sending us messages. Um, so made a really nice email from Troy Holden um congratulating us and saying real life podcasts. Um.

11:39.85
Brad: Yes, a V a life podcast if your voice actor listen to his podcast. it’s it’s fantastic oh it is another yeah, you’re right? You’re at your another v podcast is what it’s called now. Yeah.

11:48.43
Louise: Yes, wait but no at the name’s different right? Another voo podcast and he has a Facebook group which is the vo life slash another vo podcast. Um, he’s a lovely guy’s a good friend of ours.

11:59.61
Brad: And and he’s a yeah, we were kind of ah a trio of support for a long time and we still are we absolutely still are but the tricycle it was either that or the ah oh there was ah a much more pretentious name and I thought.

12:04.68
Louise: Yeah, we called ourselves the tricycle group because we used to check in.

12:18.46
Brad: What? Ah the the try. Ah, what’s the word for like try now. No no, no, there’s another word for like the 3 like a 3 part locus of power like the try. Ah, it’s not coming to me now I bet you a number of our listeners are like it’s this you.

12:21.91
Louise: Trifecta but I just going to say I don’t remember that.

12:30.69
Louise: You’ve got me stopped I have no idea.

12:35.94
Brad: Goofball They like know exactly what it is um but we were the tricycle. This is much more fun that way and I just imagine us riding tricycles around in circles. Yeah, thank you try.

12:37.78
Louise: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so Troy sent us both a really nice email about that. Thank you Troy and then um Chuck Brown ah he

12:52.29
Brad: Brown. Ah.

12:52.54
Louise: He didn’t send anything to you but I was because we meet. Um, we have ah um, a contract that we do yeah Esl scripts together doing it for a couple of years so we meet weekly and sometimes daily.

13:02.76
Brad: Yeah, we meaning you and Chuck right.

13:07.17
Louise: And he yeah mentioned that he was listening and enjoying and we want to thank Chuck Brown for his support and also um, Roe Marsh sent me a message today. Ah thanks Roe she she’s enjoying she. She’s sort of said that she’s identifying as a.

13:17.63
Brad: Yep.

13:27.30
Louise: Um, extroverted Introvert So that’s it might be an interesting thing to explore and um, yeah, yeah.

13:31.85
Brad: Yeah I think that fits into something that I wanted to and we haven’t gotten into it yet but something that I was hoping we talked to today I’m looking up on my phone right now because Roe has a podcast um row row. Yeah ro motivation. It’s called ro motivation the podcast. Um and I don’t.

13:41.94
Louise: Odeshi. Oh ok, great. Yeah, good to play that row motivation the podcast.

13:50.91
Brad: I I think she’s like oh you know Um I don’t know every time I wow, that’s not an accurate way to say it. Um I don’t know I listen I listen to it when she puts it out. It’s it’s a sort of a very short moment of inspiration. Um, thing ah like motivation. Yeah, no, there’s they’re very short. They’re um, yeah, yeah, no, that’s yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they’re like 4 to 8 minutes like for you usually around 5 minutes yeah Yeah yeah,

14:09.80
Louise: Oh so Not an accurate way to say in terms of it’s not like a full length podcast. It’s sort of um sound bites or yeah, oh well, that’s fine. Ok I’m going to check that out because I wasn’t aware.

14:22.53
Louise: Perfect, Nice Nice. Yeah, so thanks for everybody for your messages and listening and yeah.

14:34.17
Brad: Yeah, ah oh yeah, we mentioned Alice ever last time that she’d reached out to us and that was really nice. Yeah, um I I wanted to share something I ah just to sort of share personal struggles I guess and this is a.

14:34.74
Louise: We did mention Alice Sam yeah thank you.

14:47.73
Brad: Trivial one but I think it really exemplifies where I how I so lacy and I were talking and we’re trying to figure out what to do tomorrow night is Friday and we have two choices one option. We have reservations to go to a local diner that’s having ah like a like a noodle night so they’ve got like a bunch of noodle dishes that they’re making so it would just be her and I and and dinner and that sounds super lovely and I really would enjoy that the alternative is my cousin’s wife. Ah, my cousin and his wife are super uber-like hip, cool millennials. They’re like way I think my wife and I are pretty cool. Ah we have lots of friends. We do lots of socializing stuff my cousin and his wife are like way cooler than us and she owns a vintage clothing shop and they’re kind of like. You know, very super popular in Baltimore kind of thing and but because I’m family I usually we usually get invited to their parties and stuff we probably would not if we were family. Um, so it’s her. There. Her shop is doing a monthly party and this this month it just happens to be on her birthday. So it’s a. Special birthday thing and so it’s like do we go to the dinner where it’s just the 2 of us and we you know eat good food and and and we just sort of get to have a nice like that’s a perfect introverted introverts kind of thing versus going to.

16:06.60
Louise: Um.

16:16.34
Louise: Right.

16:20.21
Brad: Ah, social event where we probably won’t know anybody but my cousin and his wife. Um, but there’ll be lots of cool hit people there and I do like I do find enjoyment in that as long as I can approach it in my own way right.

16:36.64
Louise: Um.

16:36.75
Brad: And I I think we’re going to go to the party I I think we are because um I mean one it’s it’s family and it’s a birthday to um I think it will be fun and the people that they know are really super cool and really super neat and so they’re neat. It’s kind of like. Fun to hang out in that environment for a little while um I’m kind of struggling with the third reason why I picked it and so I’m curious what you might think about this. It’s very um, practical um, and and this isn’t even I wouldn’t even say this is the main reason but this is a part of it.

16:59.45
Louise: Um.

17:16.76
Brad: I Know there will be people there that would be good to network with right? and um so it also makes sense from kind of a business perspective to go is that like totally like gross I mean like it might awful person for like.

17:30.28
Louise: What No why would you think that was gross.

17:35.70
Brad: Um, but because it’s not super genuine right? It’s not like I don’t yeah yeah, and it’s kind of like oh I’m going to be be there to smoothze people and.

17:39.46
Louise: Oh because you’re like well I’m going to get something out of this well but we’ve talked about this before right? It’s like what is the problem you were trying to solve for other people. So Why? Why wouldn’t you automatically be seeing it sort of from the other side which is. Have something to offer people like networking is I have something to offer people. These people may may have a problem that I can help Solve. You know I think the mistake is thinking that marketing sales at all of those things are are slimy creepy.

18:00.30
Brad: Um, yeah, yeah I like that? yeah I guess I’m just.

18:17.72
Louise: Disingenuous when they don’t have to be. There is an element I think some people can be like that.

18:18.66
Brad: Um, well I mean there is yeah I mean there’s an ah, an aspect of of of self-service to it like you know it’s self-serving right? like oh I’m going to go to this social event because I might get you know I might be able to get some.

18:35.71
Louise: Yeah, but how many things do you do in life that are self-serving Anyway, I mean good. Well like if if you were going for pure enjoyment that would still be self-serving. You’re going to enjoy yourself and grace people with your presence.

18:37.12
Brad: Contacts out of it. But it’s not like it’s not like I’m going there and I guess I guess and it sound like I’m going to be there I Guess so I guess so I guess that’s true. And it sounds like I’m going there like handing out my business card to everybody and like hey do you need a voice actor exactly? Yeah yeah, all right.

18:54.94
Louise: But you know you’re not that guy So I guess I wouldn’t worry about it I mean I I actually fully understand where you’re coming from and why that would come up because that would be something that would occur to me and I’m just sort of trying to be the the voice of reason but I’m not by no means saying that that isn’t.

19:04.83
Brad: Yeah, Faith. And I appreciate that.

19:14.80
Louise: Wouldn’t be the first thing that would jump into my mind because it probably would like oh I shouldn’t do that. But really no I don’t think you should worry I think that’s a that’s another great reason to go.

19:15.61
Brad: Yeah.

19:26.22
Brad: Ok, all right? Well thank you for helping me clarify that and if anybody has any thoughts if you’re like listening and you’re like dude that is pretty gross. Let us know because oh no, um, not really no.

19:33.97
Louise: Let us know in the comments wait are there comments. No you have to email us I think yeah.

19:43.55
Brad: Yeah, which is what was it again connect was it connect connect at the ins. Yeah yeah, connect at the infoid circuit.

19:50.14
Louise: Um, ah the inside voicepodcast.com connect at the inside voicepodcast.com we should really get that one rolling off the tongue a little better.

19:59.29
Brad: I Think so we’ll have to practice it. Um, ok well I was just curious about that. But I do I and I did wanted to share that as a sort of just sort of ah fork in the road that I had to look at as an introvert and. Personally I all things being equal I would just rather go to dinner with lacy and have some noodles and not have to talk to anybody but I know that I don’t grow and I don’t um. I It’s it’s harder to develop as a human you know floating through life on this planet If if you aren’t yeah.

20:37.76
Louise: Um, I mean yes and no these social social social interaction is important but it’s like it’s It’s not the same for everyone and not everyone gets the same out of it. Um.

20:48.68
Brad: Fair, fair, fair. But what what I’m saying is for me in that that moment of decision I really felt like it was an opportunity to push myself outside of my comfort level for to grow. Ah, and I think we’ve talked about other times that I’ve made.

20:59.94
Louise: Right? and I will add to that that that’s so.

21:04.21
Brad: Yeah, when I’ve made other decisions where I had friends call me on a Friday night and I really just wanted to stay home and work on stuff and and have time to myself. So.

21:08.87
Louise: Yeah, ok well here’s the thing that might resonate then um, this is a really lovely Youtube video that I came across ah by Bbc Ideas it’s called the quiet power of introverts.

21:26.27
Louise: It’s by an animator and self-professed introvert now I don’t know quite how to pronoununce her first name because it’s f ah sorry s o f j a so I assume it’s Sophia or Sophia Umaric so I’m going to give you some quotes from this because it’s beautiful and I think. Um, well I just like it and it sort of goes a little more in depth as to maybe what introversion is at least for um, this lovely animator. So she says sure.

21:45.83
Brad: Please share.

21:55.30
Brad: Um, I think that’s awesome. Can I interrupt you for just a second before you it I think that’s awesome because we’ve been this is episode 6 and we’ve talked a lot about being introverts and and I want to I think it’s fair to say neither you or I are health care professionals. We’re not.

22:02.61
Louise: Yeah, yeah.

22:12.46
Brad: We don’t have any like clinical understanding of of introversion versus extroversion and this is episode 6 and but we’ve never really sort of defined or talked about what it is explicitly so I’m I’m hoping you can share this and that maybe that will lead into.

22:25.11
Louise: Mom.

22:32.16
Brad: Ah discussion a little bit more about what is ah what we feel introvision is.

22:34.21
Louise: Yeah, and I think we can always circle back to this because well you know what? I’m just going to read the quote the quotes that I pulled from her Youtube video and um, we can discuss so these are all quotes ok.

22:45.80
Brad: Yay Yay! You know.

22:49.93
Louise: Our need for quiet and solitary time isn’t a flaw. It’s a gift. The world feels like a place that rewards extroverts where being loud is mistaken for being confident and happy where everyone has something to say but nobody listens a world of open plan opposite. Sorry a world of open plan offices, networking parties and big personalities for those who speak Softly. It’s easy to feel left out people often think extroverts are shy or Antisocial. So and then it goes on to say that it isn’t necessarily the case but that. Extroverts will leave a party energized and an introvert will like need time alone to recharge afterwards. So then she goes on to say there is a scientific theory for this.. There are 2 important chemicals found in all our brains Dopamine and I’m going to mispronounce this.

23:31.72
Brad: Yeah, yeah.

23:47.29
Louise: Asceal choline acetylcholine dopamine is like a hit of energy when we take risks or meet new people and it makes extroverts feel great, but introverts are more sensitive to dopamine and get quickly overstimated That’s why we prefer the more slow burn. We get. When our brains release acetylcholine that happens when we concentrate read or focus our minds. It makes us introverts feel relaxed alert and content but it barely registers with extroverts of course like anything. It’s a sliding scale. You can lean one way or another or be a bit of both which is known as an ambivert if introversion were more valued by society. It could make a massive difference to our collective future. The unique attributes of introverts really are a deep quiet strength. And as Gandhi put it in a gentle way. You can shake the world so that was the quiet power of introverts on Bbc ideas by Animator Sophia Ummarik

24:52.26
Brad: That’s awesome.

24:56.91
Brad: Yeah, yeah, thanks for mentioning her again. So that we clearly giving her clear credit and if you can email me a link to that then I can put it in the show notes too? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

25:03.30
Louise: I absolutely will I urge anyone to check it out I I it’s not very long I quoted probably like 50% of what she said on it. But it’s really lovely. It’s and her animation is really sweet as well.

25:13.42
Brad: Um.

25:18.65
Brad: What What really struck me about that is I So I Remember we were talking a ah little bit ago and I had mentioned that I had read in one of the books that I’m reading that the majority of Americans are extroverts and by a fair amount. And not introverts and so I’m like I was skeptical of that and maybe I misread it I Very very very well misread it because I was very skeptical of that that didn’t feel right to me and that didn’t feel like it matched my experience with people that I meet although clearly that’s not a big enough population to draw any conclusions. So.

25:37.98
Louise: Ah, a.

25:54.30
Brad: I did look I did look it up I googled it because I was really curious. It turns out that by by population introverts are 50.7 and extroverts are 49.3 which is weird. First of all that was surprising to me that it was so even.

25:54.32
Louise: Ah.

26:12.70
Louise: Um, yeah, yeah.

26:12.79
Brad: It was almost. It’s almost exactly fifty fifty like within 10% but what’s weird about that is we very very clearly live in a society that is extrovert forward right? that creates an expectation.

26:26.76
Louise: Well, and yeah, she and she says that in the video she says the world feels like a place that rewards extroverts and I feel that 100% yes

26:34.68
Brad: Exactly Yeah and that’s that’s exactly I think that’s the line that hit me that I’m that that really brought me to this ah and and that’s is that weird as as I was sort of like before I I had understood what the numbers were.

26:38.98
Louise: Yeah.

26:52.39
Brad: Ah, you know I remember thinking? Um, well if we live it but but but being aware that we live in a world that rewards extroverts and and and and that promotes extroversion it sets extroversion as sort of the the ideal state and I remember thinking how different would the world be if it were majority.

27:06.95
Louise: Um, a.

27:12.45
Brad: Introverts in minority extroverts and it turns out though by a very slim margin. It is a majority introverts and fair enough fair enough. But I I imagine However, you slice it. It’s going to be super close that it’s not like.

27:16.62
Louise: According to a guess one study but sure. Yeah.

27:29.31
Louise: I I think what it.

27:31.50
Brad: You’d think or or I would think I would think based on the world we live in that we were at like a sixty forty split like 60% of the population are extroverts and 40% are inverts. Yeah yeah.

27:39.58
Louise: Yeah I would have thought it was way more skewed I would have thought it was far fewer introverts and also then I like the thing that she mentioned about and I think it’s a relatively new term or at least being used um more recently at the ambivert. Which is being a bit of both. Um, so basically kind of being average in terms of either and I wonder if we start to factor that in um, where most people would fall you know like I was thinking about how what you were talking about with Lacey and and um.

27:55.64
Brad: Um.

28:06.13
Brad: Yeah I think.

28:14.76
Louise: How you know she’s really social and has tons of friends or she’s talking to them all the time. But you think she’s also an introvert because of X Y Z and I thought oh maybe she’s an ambivert I mean that sounds very likely. Oh ok.

28:19.27
Brad: Ah.

28:25.73
Brad: Yeah, no actually I talked to her about that after and we we had a yeah we did. We had a conversation about it and ah actually what sort of I think if I am and I I’d have to go back and listen but in my mind the conclusion that I had sort of come to by the end of you and I talking about it was that she really is an introvert but because of her past. Um, which I’m not at liberty to It’s not my story to tell but because of her her past. Ah she the the way she dealt with elements of her past was to really just go one ah 100000% 100000 and being um.

28:44.73
Louise: Oh no, totally.

28:58.83
Louise: Okay.

29:03.22
Brad: Being fully and completely and herself to an exaggerate if you knew my well you do, but ah to know my wife you to understand exactly what I mean. Ah, she’s 100 and always one hundred and fifty percent herself um ah to the point of where she’s somebody who really stands out.

29:14.17
Louise: Um.

29:21.95
Louise: Right.

29:22.79
Brad: And in a crowd. Um, and so it would be really easy to see her as an extrovert because she’s so so willing to stand out but in the end I think what happened was she had a choice I either curl up in a little ball and disappear or.

29:28.32
Louise: Right.

29:41.52
Brad: I push myself out and I just really lean into who I am and once she started doing that and standing out she kind of got rewarded for that and that encouraged her to do that more and that really helped her overcome a lot of the stuff she was dealing with when she was in middle school high school that sort of thing.

29:54.66
Louise: Um, right and I think we’re talking sort of like extenuating life circumstances versus you know where you naturally sort of would fall in terms of you know, maybe the reward centers of your brain and what.

30:11.58
Brad: The.

30:12.20
Louise: Gives you energy and what depletes you and that kind of thing which is sort of what what Sophia Umar is talking about in her video is like that idea that um introverts being more sensitive to dopamine and all that kind of stuff. So I also understand the idea of like stepping out of.

30:23.74
Brad: Oh.

30:30.71
Louise: Where you naturally might fall to for whatever reason you know.

30:32.17
Brad: I Want to say as a side note here I Want to be very careful as I because I think we’re sort of wandering into exploring what it means to be an Introvert I Want to I want to be very careful that we’re not and I don’t think anyone would think this but I just want to set this as an attention. That we’re not trying to gate keep Introversion. We’re not trying to say if you’re not this way, you’re not an introvert. Okay like yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

30:55.92
Louise: Ah I would I never would have that wouldn’t have occurred to me I’m I’m talking about 1 video that I found on Youtube by an animator that resonated with me and that I thought was some really good little. Ideas to think about and I’m I am open to to any other like whatever. Yeah.

31:16.46
Brad: Yeah I just want to I just wanted to to to just sort of tag that because anytime you start to say this is the definition of this thing it may exclude people who ah who know that they’re that thing right? and I just want to make sure that.

31:27.75
Louise: Yeah, and I think she addresses that too like she she does say you know that it’s a sliding scale and you you know you’re going to lean 1 way or the other or you might be right in the middle or you might be you know more of an extreme of the two. So yeah.

31:36.48
Brad: Ah.

31:41.13
Brad: Yeah, something I ran across that I I’m I’ve been thinking about a lot and I find it really interesting is the idea of the 4 types of introverts. Oh ok, cool, cool, cool, cool. Um, so there there’s there are four so this is a I think.

31:53.89
Louise: Um, oh I haven’t heard about this? Yeah, let’s let’s let’s dive into that.

32:00.62
Brad: Hypothesis I don’t know it’s ah it’s a way of sort of categorizing different introverts that I thought was really interesting and it’s kind of interesting to to think about them and figure out where you sort of land among the 4 Um, so the first one is the social introvert and um so a social introvert is there.

32:12.18
Louise: Um.

32:20.60
Brad: They’re not going to avoid going to a party right? They’re going to. Um, they’re going to be willing to do that to put themselves out there Socially, they’re going to have they have good social skills. Ah they have you know a good friend base. But once they’ve done that social thing they’ve given all of their. Tokens right? All of their coins or their cookies or their spoons or whatever metaphor you want to use ah and they then need to go recuperate right? and they need to spend time alone to recover so they’re they’re very socially engaged but at a cost.

32:43.92
Louise: Um, yeah.

32:57.58
Brad: As opposed to an extrovert who could be socially engaged but they get energy from that right? The second is the thinking Introvert which is someone who I think it’s the type of person that we think of that’s sort of always kind of stuck in their own brain and thinking their own thoughts and.

33:01.44
Louise: Right.

33:15.80
Brad: Fantasizing a lot and um because they’re really in their head a lot. Ah they are less likely to be social and less likely to and have less of a need for social engagement or friends or you know. And so they would tend to have close friends that they could share that internal world with I guess um, but so that’s that’s sort of the introvert that you may know that’s really kind of stuck in their head a lot. The third one. Um.

33:54.24
Brad: Are um, it’s hard to remember everything isn’t it the so the anxious it was anxious. That’s right So they were the anxious introverts and so those are the people who would go to a party but they’ll kind of sit off to the side and they’d be afraid to say anything because they’re so self. Um.

33:57.99
Louise: Um, okay.

34:10.18
Brad: Self monitoring that they’re afraid that they they may say something but then they’ll be afraid that it hurts somebody’s feelings or it upsets somebody or it. Ah yeah, it it um it caused harm in some way or it made them look stupid. Um, so that.

34:24.17
Louise: Right? So a sort of hyper vigilance or self-awareness or something. Yeah.

34:28.85
Brad: Yeah, Yeahp Yeah, and they’ll really feel it in their gut before they do a social thing right? They’ll feel that anxiety I think and then the four is the restrained or the inhibited Introvert and these are the people that you know that are really this is where the shyness cliche kind of comes from or the trope. These are the.

34:34.50
Louise: Right.

34:41.60
Louise: Um.

34:45.19
Louise: Right.

34:48.99
Brad: The introverts that really just are shy and really, they’ve had a hard time developing their social skills if they get into a situation. They tend to just sort of shrink back and not want to participate. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yay, yeah, and and ah to be fair I’m summarizing all of these to my understanding.

34:58.83
Louise: Right? The sort of classic wallflower. Yeah.

35:07.94
Brad: Um, so so those are the the 4 recognized types of introversion I I find that really interesting to see it broken down that way. Um I will volunteer and say that I I definitely think that I am self identified this isn’t clinically identified as a thinking introvert um.

35:17.59
Louise: Um.

35:28.20
Brad: That’s just I I I have so many times have to apologize for being stuck at my head and not paying attention to what people have said because somebody will say something. Maybe even you louise you’ll say something and that will spin my mind off into this whole thought world. That I that I’m then no longer still with you for the second for the end of what you’re saying and I really struggle with that. Um.

35:48.54
Louise: Um, right I think I’m similar and I I mean I think as we’ve already sort of reiterated that these would all be on the sliding scale. Also um, but that’s that was the one that resonated the most with me. Um, and I.

35:57.56
Brad: Yeah, absolutely yeah.

36:03.36
Brad: Of earth.

36:06.64
Louise: Do have a tendency to sort of in my mind will wander or I spend a lot of time you know thinking and that kind of thing and I have actually really so listening has become a skill I have worked hard to develop.

36:23.89
Brad: What sorry.

36:26.33
Louise: And what you’re talking about I’m sorry where were we and if irv my partner I mean if he’s listening he will start laughing because.

36:30.86
Brad: Yes, were you saying something I did my miss. Yes.

36:41.27
Louise: Yeah, there are so many times where I’m like what did you just say and it’s something I’ve responded to even now I know tons of people are gonna be like oh I do that all the time. It’s probably not. It’s not exclusively an introversion thing but but that is definitely um, part of what manifests for me and I and I yeah.

36:44.30
Brad: Oh yeah.

37:00.67
Louise: Working hard on listening and being curious about other people has has helped me enormously so that’s a strategy that I’ve implemented I think now not saying there’s any again, there’s nothing wrong with any of these things you know, being an Introvert is not inherently a bad thing. You know it’s not.

37:09.87
Brad: Strategy. Ah.

37:15.86
Brad: Um, yeah, right? and ah and right and when as we’ve just seen yeah and as we’ve just seen if over half the population is introverted then you’re normal.

37:19.15
Louise: Ah, clinical diagnosis as far as I’m aware. Um, if it is then it should extend that an extra extroversion is its own clinical diagnosis right? What is wrong with you? Um, yeah.

37:34.26
Brad: Right? Like you’re like more than normal. So yeah, yeah, yeah.

37:36.31
Louise: Yeah, yeah, it’s just that the world like in Sophia who marks words a world feels like a place that rewards extroverts we were talking about it a a couple of weeks ago I don’t remember which which episode but um, just talking about how the. Corporate world. You know the the office world really rewards it actually she touched on it with open plan offices like that nightmare I could not could not do that. Yeah.

37:54.60
Brad: Um.

37:57.82
Brad: Yeah, and I would also I would also point like to point to icebreakers right? like this is something that we’ve talked about in the past I know but I think Extroverts extroverts if it’s a good icebreaker extroverts tend to like. See it as a great opportunity to get to talk to people and get to like get to know people introverts. Ah maybe I shouldn’t speak for all of us view icebreakers as like awful terrifying horrible things that are torture that you should not ask us to do right? but.

38:27.26
Louise: Are.

38:33.92
Brad: It’s a part of corporate culture and anytime you go to a workshop or a conference or a master class. Well you wouldn’t really do master class for your corporate shop. But you know what I mean and and I yeah yeah yeah, hits please.

38:43.27
Louise: Yeah, no, it’s it’s horrendous and ok I can I tell this little story because I just thought of it. Ah in terms of like corporate culture so in in my the career that I laughed I had so I gave them quite a lot of notice it was like three months notice or or something and. And over the the year or so prior. Um, the owner of the company had actually hired sort of um like a consultant type of person who I don’t know how they they help the organization I don’t really know how I like I can’t It’s hard for me to put into words because it’s so not something that I that I that resonates me or that I fully understand or saw the benefits of so anyways, so this kind of um person that that was hired would come in once a week and help us with like meetings and strategies and and that kind of thing. And along with that came um, this test that we all had to fill out that was kind of like a yeah it was it. It was sort of like that but completely different apparently um, and the results were pretty fascinating and pretty darn accurate.

39:46.75
Brad: Um, oh is it like the briers Myers-briggs or whatever.

39:59.98
Brad: Ah.

40:02.32
Louise: And one of the things that came out of mine was like um louise hates being the center of attention and like don’t put her in a room surrounded by people and ask her to like start talking, you know that was just just one. Yeah.

40:17.43
Brad: Don’t put her in a podcast and expect her to um.

40:19.85
Louise: This is just 1 thing that stood out like there were multitude of things that were very accurate I wish I could remember the name of the task is like I actually would highly recommend it for organizations because I think used properly it could it could have helped that organization. Um in how. How to best deal with people how to how to Um, yeah I don’t know support people support people I like how to best support people given their particular personalities and what would work for them right? because as we’re saying the lens of corporate culture tends to lean 1 way and that is.

40:46.95
Brad: I see. Yeah I see.

40:58.20
Brad: Yeah, so.

40:59.40
Louise: Extroversion. So just to wrap this up. This is the this is the climax of the story now on my last day this coach person um had everybody gather around.

41:04.11
Brad: On my.

41:14.82
Louise: Um I don’t know how many people it was. It was a small organization. So I’m going to say maybe 40 people. Um, which is a huge amount of people to me. Um and and kind of give like a big cheer and ah a goodbye. Whatever to me.

41:18.66
Brad: Um, oh okay, that’s more than I was thinking. Okay.

41:32.12
Brad: Yeah, yeah.

41:33.83
Louise: And I I was like basically put directly in the middle of all of this and and the coach person actually said you know even though we know louise like hates this and and and so they did it and I even though it was my last day and it was very well-meaning and. Like all of the intellectual things that go along with like reasoning your way to try and be comfortable with something or be appreciative of it or all of those things. It didn’t matter what I told myself or what I knew the like intellectually was true. It made me want to.

41:59.65
Brad: Yeah.

42:09.97
Louise: Crawl into a hole and die like I almost sort of crying but not from like the the sort of emotional weight of leaving an organization that I’ve been with for a long time I mean that might have been there a little bit but it was more like I actually I I felt so. Ah, uncomfortable and it was you know seconds. I mean it didn’t even last very long but I remember it. It was my last day. It’s the thing that I remember the most and it was so negative for me now this this person did not wasn’t setting out to be like unkind. Um, it was almost sort of like a tongue in cheek Joke. Oh well, we all.

42:32.21
Brad: Ah, yeah.

42:43.95
Brad: Yeah.

42:48.85
Louise: Tongue in cheek joke like we all know while Louise feels about pitting being put on the spot in front of everyone and I just was like oh my god get me out of here. Um.

42:51.23
Brad: Yeah. And I was going to ask and like not knowing how that story’ is going to end I was going to ask if that might have made it different like if to acknowledge that it’s a challenging thing for you to do but say we know this is hard for you but would you would you still be willing to do it if that made it any easier or not it sounds like the answer is now.

43:10.27
Louise: No, it was on the spot it was I was not asked. It was just everybody gather around and and I don’t remember if they they all sort of said something all at once and then kind of gave like this gigantic group hug kind of.

43:15.70
Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

43:24.83
Brad: Oh my God It sounds awful to me I don’t know if this is an introvision thing or not but any any sort of group buy in thing I have a real hard time with like yeah from small to large like.

43:28.29
Louise: Yeah, not just ah, absolutely horrendous.

43:34.34
Louise: no no I can’t do it I can’t do it I can’t do it I can’t do it it like can even 1 just getting anxiety talking about it.

43:44.35
Brad: You know there there are these sort of like I forget the name of it. There’s an organization where you go to the meetings and they like get you excited about motivated and life blah Blah blah and I just know I couldn’t buy into that. Maybe I bet I was inoculated.

43:53.19
Louise: Yeah.

44:00.76
Brad: Against that with my Catholic upbringing. Maybe so I don’t know that’s a hypothesis that I have about that. But yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, a dot right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it explains everything actually? Ah so I yeah I’m not going to I’m not going to say.

44:02.55
Louise: Oh I didn’t realize you had a Catholic upbringing Actually this explains so much just getting no.

44:14.10
Louise: Um, so there you go there Smile little.

44:19.51
Brad: Suggest that we’ve defined because we didn’t really set out at the beginning of this but this was an interesting sort of that we’ve defined introversion but it was really I think this was nice. This is fun to sort of share share like I think you knew a little bit and I knew a little bit and that was nice. Yeah.

44:35.12
Louise: Yeah, it’s sort of because um, it got me thinking about well we haven’t really talked about sort of the quote unquote definition. Um, and they seem to vary a little bit like I like I think you had said actually that like the dictionary I don’t know Mirririam Webster or if it was the oed.

44:41.76
Brad: Yeah.

44:52.14
Brad: Yeah, yeah, the.

44:53.46
Louise: But said something about like shyness and I thought oh that’s I feel like that’s just a that’s a misconception. It may be part of it for some people but it’s yeah so it’s good to discuss. Um, what? So the other prevailing thoughts are around that out there and what more? yeah.

44:58.20
Brad: Yeah, that exactly.

45:10.29
Brad: Um, I think 1 thing to so that I can say is and and we’ve touched on this before but I just want to reiterate it and I think every there’s a good chance. Most introvits will get behind this is that you it’s it’s I think it’s nearly impossible.

45:13.19
Louise: Um.

45:28.30
Brad: To look at somebody that you know look at their actions that you see and know and be able to determine whether they are an introvert or an extrovert because a lot of introverts you you just wouldn’t you would you don’t know what the internal impact is of what. You’re seeing them do so until you really get to know somebody. Yeah yeah, and like you know I’ve been with my wife for a little while now and you know we’ve been married for ten years nine years and I that was a tricky question for me right? and so it’s just really hard.

45:47.98
Louise: Yes, things can make people spiral. Yeah for sure.

45:59.80
Louise: Yeah, um.

46:06.17
Brad: It’s really hard to so to look at somebody or look at their actions and say is or is not an introvert.

46:13.82
Louise: And it’s funny because Irv and I were talking um because we’ve been together. Ah, how long we say six years yeah just over six years and um I said did I did I get it right? like. About him being us both being introverts but him being more likely to um, be be more comfortable around more people like and actually go up and speak to people and not be a wallflower and he was like oh absolutely and then I so and then I was like what about the the icebreaker thing because you would said. Ok, well, which one of you would be more likely to put your hand up if there was like if you had to do the icebreaker thing and I said whoa like neither of us and and he was like well we would probably look at each other roll our eyes hate the whole thing.

46:59.61
Brad: Ah, yeah.

47:07.89
Louise: But I would totally take 1 for the team and get up and do the icebreaker so he can he definitely can push past push past it and laugh it off and it might not um cause him as much anxiety but he’s certainly not like raring to go on that front. Yeah, so.

47:09.67
Brad: Yeah, no, he can.

47:25.82
Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s interesting. Yeah, well, that’s I think I think that’s where we are with it. Um, and obviously yeah and I think you know that’s something we’ll continue to talk about and explore I Hope so.

47:27.30
Louise: Yeah, yeah, anyways, yeah, this was super interesting I’m glad that so that we explored that a bit more.

47:41.61
Brad: And be nice to have somebody with some actual um, clinical or I do too and I know or and and I and I’m I’m and real I’m I’m hesitating to use the word mental Health professional. Yeah yeah.

47:46.20
Louise: I Hate the word clinical because it sounds like it’s like it’s a disorder. It’s not Yeah. Or even Health care professional. Yeah I don’t even know where that comes from for you but that maybe that’s something to explore.

48:00.84
Brad: Let me put it this way. So so somebody who has scientific understanding of introversion and extroversion. Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, it’d be nice to find somebody that did that we could talk to a little bit because it’s weird. There’s There’s so much pop Science social.

48:05.40
Louise: Scientific understanding I think is a better way to to phrase that? Yes, yes.

48:20.68
Brad: Socially accepted ideas of of introversion and extroversion and it’d be nice to talk to somebody who who’s done some research or studied research behind that to see what the truth is but or we can all just learn from Facebook and Youtube and Tiktok and go and go from there.

48:31.10
Louise: Totally yeah.

48:38.38
Louise: I Mean that’s the way the world’s going right? I mean that’s where I get ah all right? We have um.

48:40.19
Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all right? Well maybe we should wrap it up. It’s we’ve we’ve been at this for 48 minutes and 50 seconds so yeah it was really good talking to you again I loved it. Yeah, thanks for sharing.

48:55.60
Louise: Was really good talking to you too. So are we doing a little ah tagline contest thing again. Oh no, you can’t do that has to be on the spot Anyway, so that we have a big awkward silence like every time.

49:00.39
Brad: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh I was going to write some down and and and like brainstorm some before oh it does it does it does? Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

49:11.88
Louise: Um, which I was thinking in post I should put some like cricket sound so people don’t think that like their their network has just like dropped out is it is this is this thing on. Um, ok.

49:21.93
Brad: Um.

49:28.47
Louise: So I don’t yeah actually now that I said that I don’t have any ideas. Oh my god.

49:32.27
Brad: Yeah, not now that you’ve boxed us into a corner of having to do it live and on the show. Okay so a play it’s got to be a play in the word inside voice so it could be a play in the word inside I think we’ve we’ve leaned on that pretty heavily which is okay that makes sense. Um, ah.

49:44.48
Louise: We’ve leaned on that. Yeah.

49:50.00
Brad: Let me see let me think about what we’ve talked about today and see if there’s anything that relates I don’t know.

49:57.10
Louise: How about something riffing on Sophia Umar’s video of the quiet power of introvert something about um how.

50:06.13
Brad: Helping you tap in to the quiet power of invert I like it. Oh yeah, yeah yeah, ok ok co go Coco Co are you going to do the first part we’re going to screw it up I Love I love them. We screw it up every time. Ok go ahead.

50:09.57
Louise: How helping you tap into the quiet power of your inside voice. Ok ok, yeah yeah.

50:25.28
Louise: Kate. Ah, thanks for joining us now wait what now? Um, how do we phrase it is helping you helping you tap in. Ah just ok helping you tap in to the.

50:39.20
Brad: Power of your inside voice. Oh the quiet power. How about you say? Um, how about you say helping you tap into the quiet power and then I say the second partre see the rest is that enough.

50:40.24
Louise: Quiet power of your inside voice help it.

50:51.58
Louise: Um, of your ends. Ok yep, helping you helping you tap into the quiet power of yes I love it. Ok yeah.

50:58.47
Brad: Your inside voice. Yeah, okay, that’s a good contender I like that that’s fun as long as she doesn’t have that trademarked and but we give her credit. That’s where we got it from so.

51:09.65
Louise: Hopefully I mean what we’re not making any money off it. So I don’t think okay all bye.

51:13.52
Brad: Okay, yay, all right bye by luse.