This Episode:
Brad wants to talk about weekends as a freelancer… and as an introvert!
Then, Louise wants to sort through the avalanche of information that’s available. With so much info out there in podcasts, youtube videos, blogs and coaches… how do you sort out the info that’s right for you?
Then, we discuss a client we’ve both had experience with – and the challenges that we all face from time to time.
And we revisit last episodes closing tag – will it be our forever tag?
*Note: “MK416” is actually “MKH416” – we both got it wrong, but Brad is pretty sure it was his fault.
Louise’s Website
Brad’s Website
Transcript:
00:00.60
Louise: There We go Well Hello Brad How’s a cow in.
00:05.26
Brad: Hey hey louise good. It’s going good. It’s ah Thursday we don’t usually record on Thursdays but it is yeah we sometimes have to do that. Yeah.
00:13.65
Louise: Yeah, we had to rejig the the schedule a bit this week which is totally fine. Yeah.
00:22.74
Brad: And Thursdays are good because it’s almost Friday most of the week is behind you although I have to say and I know this is something that you and I’ve talked about before but I’m I’m new as a full-time freelancer right? It’s been a month and two and a half weeks I think and.
00:37.00
Louise: Right.
00:41.70
Brad: Weekends hit a lot different when you’re a freelancer. Yeah and I it’s it’s weird because I work on the weekends and you know not as much but if I need to get things done I get things done I do less.
00:44.68
Louise: Don’t they yeah.
00:57.82
Louise: Um.
01:00.97
Brad: Marketing networking and that sort of stuff. But if I have if I have production to get done I get it done.
01:03.83
Louise: Absolutely and I think I don’t know if it was the last time we met to record I was talking about sort of the the glorification of workaholism in our culture and people sort of bragging about working on weekends. So I’m just to reiterate I’m certainly not saying. You know when you run your own business. You’re going to work on weekends sometimes maybe a lot of the time but it was the you know it was the sort of glorifying at peace that I was trying to address. Um I I had to work this weekend I had I mean I I maybe worked two or three hours a day. It was a long weekend here in Canada. Family day. Um, and I just I really wanted to wrap up a big long form project I was doing and and so I did I just spent the time to do it and and that’s you know that’s fine I don’t it wasn’t annoying to me I am happy to do it I love what I do so.
01:54.77
Brad: And yeah, yeah, that’s what that’s what’s surprising I I shouldn’t say surprising but like my oh can you hear that background noise. Maybe we can cut this but ok if it’s fine then it’s fine. Ah.
02:06.10
Louise: No.
02:12.66
Brad: You know if my old day job and apologize to any of you guys if you listen to this. It’s nothing personal. But if when the alarms went off over the weekend because the surfer went down or something it just filled me with dread and and frustration and it was my time and you know what I mean it was really like.
02:28.43
Louise: Rage. Yeah.
02:31.99
Brad: It was something I dreaded all the time and on on the completely opposite of that now I like find myself wanting to come down and just get some stuff done and if lacy goes out with her friends for a couple hours of the weekend. That’s time that I can come down here and get some work done. So it’s a completely different mindset and.
02:47.68
Louise: Um, exactly yeah.
02:51.30
Brad: Not intentional. It’s just I just feel about so much differently about it.
02:53.20
Louise: Yeah, and that’s great and but and and I think just getting back to to again when I was talking about lot on the I think it was the last episode is that it’s that drawing boundaries with yourself too because you do get to a point where you’re like oh even though I love this and even though it’s you know it’s not the same as. You know, having a boss and working for someone else where you know you feel like that that free time is really being hijacked. Um that you know you need to deliberately not work when you don’t have to you know.
03:32.97
Louise: Just spending time with your friends with your family with yourself with your dog. Whatever just um, you know not making it a seven day a week thing if possible that that was more what I was what I was getting at hopefully that was clear I mean I don’t want to tell anybody what to do either I just.
03:34.44
Brad: Yeah.
03:42.29
Brad: Yeah I think that makes sense. Yeah it it.
03:51.63
Louise: I rejected the whole um glorification of working twenty four seven you know it’s just ah it I don’t think it’s healthy. Okay, good.
03:57.56
Brad: Yeah, no, and that that was clear and and actually yeah and actually so this past weekend. Ah, and I think I’m I think I mentioned that this was going to happen my wife. Clans they call them bookends. They’re weekends where her and 3 of her girlfriends will rent an airbnb cabin and spend the weekend just staying in the cabin and reading and they all they all love to read and they all have 3 or 4 books.
04:26.64
Louise: That sounds amazing. Love it.
04:30.29
Brad: Going out of time. So my wife was gone all weekend Friday night through Monday afternoon and I if I ever question whether or not I’m an introvert or not um I had friends reach out to me and i.
04:49.50
Brad: Lovely people that I love spending time with on Friday night and on Saturday night and I absolutely could have gone out and done social things. But I just just was enjoying being home alone doing stuff on my time and. Working the parts parts of the weekend I wanted to work playing video games the parts of the weekend I wanted to play video games and I just I just was enjoying so much not going out. Not talking to people not socializing and I respectfully declined the opportunities and was so happy.
05:20.69
Louise: Yeah.
05:27.44
Louise: And that’s great and that’s your time to like that’s your recharge time too like obviously we’re social creatures and we we need other people and we you know, um, all of those things but we do need that downtime and I think it’s good to have that balance and I also think.
05:28.42
Brad: That I did. Um.
05:31.86
Brad: You.
05:47.00
Louise: You know we live in an age where there is so much social media and attention seeking and I worry a little bit that um maybe there are people out there who really aren’t comfortable with their own company or being alone and that’s. Definitely a skill to cultivate like whether you’re an extrovert or an Introvert I think um, yeah, um.
06:09.94
Brad: Yeah I like that that makes sense and yeah, so yeah, even if you are an introvert or an extrovert feeling free to to take that time when you could be doing something to to not feel you have to be out. Doing things socially all the time and just say you know what I’m going to stay in tonight.
06:30.79
Louise: Yeah, or even blasting your social media and getting attention that way. It’s you know.
06:36.53
Brad: So I didn’t I didn’t I didn’t talk to anybody from I think when she left Friday afternoon till she got back on Monday other than I may have gone through a drive through and I went and I did go to a diner.
06:55.52
Louise: Oh like in person talking I was going to say because I think we chatted a little bit over the weekend just through messages but voice person to person. Yeah.
06:55.77
Brad: For brunch on by myself in person. Yeah, no I mean I mean like voice to voice person other than a driveth throughugh and at the diner on Saturday morning late morning would by myself which I will I love to go out to eat by myself I absolutely love it. I love going to the movies by myself.
07:17.90
Louise: You know what I haven’t done that in so long. But when I was when I lived in Toronto which was back in my twenty s I used to do that all all the time I used to go to the movies by myself and go for dinner by myself and I just realized like a.
07:22.42
Brad: Ah.
07:34.89
Louise: Haven’t done that in ages.
07:36.67
Brad: It’s weird to me that people think that’s weird like I’ve I’ve read long. Yeah yeah, I’ve read long Facebook threads and stuff about people debating and just some people think they they wouldn’t be comfortable doing that they feel like people would think they don’t have friends.
07:39.56
Louise: Do people think it’s weird I mean I don’t think it’s weird. But.
07:53.77
Louise: Oh God who cares? what people think.
07:54.51
Brad: You know what? I mean like to me I’m like to me it says I have so many friends and so much social stuff to do that I can afford you know I mean to just Askew that and go out on my own once in a while and have dinner I don’t know I don’t I don’t feel it means that that people see that that way at all. But and if they do that’s.
08:05.35
Louise: Yeah, yeah.
08:14.51
Brad: Thing not mine. So that was really nice and what was interesting and this is another thing that I’m I’m trying to sort through and learn and understand so I did quite a bit of work over the weekend because I wanted to and because I enjoyed it and got some long form projects done and. But that meant I had less work to do this week and um is a little bit slow work coming in this week which is fine. We have that. Um, but I I found myself I think it was Tuesday afternoon I’m like I got all my so I got everything done like I got all my networking done all my so my.
08:36.36
Louise: Right.
08:49.86
Louise: Right.
08:54.18
Brad: Um, whatever we wanted to do get done for the podcast and and all of my orders. All of my work was completed and I’m like I guess I can just end and because I had worked a lot over the weekend and I’m like well I guess I can just take the afternoon and go. Do something else for a little while and for a minute I I felt guilty about that right? But then I’m like you know what the number of hours I put in over the weekend and the number of nights I work I’m like you know what I can do that and so.
09:18.26
Louise: Um, right.
09:24.73
Louise: Well, it’s an interesting mindset shift too because when you’re working for someone else. You’re literally trading your time for money when you work for yourself it. It’s not. It’s not all billable hours right? so.
09:38.11
Brad: Right.
09:40.36
Louise: It becomes a whole different animal and a whole different way of thinking about it and um so it’s funny that you’re sort of by the sounds of it by what you just said, you’re almost still in that mindset of like well I put in this many hours on the weekend. So therefore I get this break. Do you know what? I mean.
09:53.83
Brad: Um, yeah, yeah, well I mean I’ve been oh yeah, I’m yeah and I’ve been a working stiff for you know 30 years so it it.
09:58.41
Louise: Not that that’s I mean that’s not crazy thinking. That’s just it’s it’s definitely 9 to 5 thinking? Yeah yeah, you’ve been working since you were 10
10:08.87
Brad: I think it’s going to take me a little and that’s why I say I wish I was ten thirty years ago I I was not 10 ah, but that’s why I say you know. I’m new to this and I’m still sort of sussing my way and sorting my way through it and deciding how to feel about certain things and how to approach certain things and um, if I work till two o’clock in the morning is it. Ok if I sleep in till nine or 10.
10:26.11
Louise: Um, yes.
10:41.23
Louise: Yes, hell yes it is actually um, yeah, it’s funny I I mean I had a like I said I had a busy weekend at night I really wanted to wrap up a bunch of work but then going into the week it didn’t it I was glad I did it because it ended up being ah, it’s been a really busy week and I’ve actually.
10:42.87
Brad: You know.
10:59.40
Louise: Had a little bit of anxiety just getting out the door for my like I think I mentioned to you I don’t know if I mentioned it on the podcast. But I I’m really trying to make sure I get up for really long walks every single day I mean I have a dog that needs walking but you can kind of be a lazy dog owner where you can just take them to the park and stand there and like throw a ball.
11:09.10
Brad: Yeah.
11:16.61
Brad: Yeah.
11:18.45
Louise: So I’m not doing that I’m actually purposely going for really long walks like almost 2 hour walks every day well hour and 45 minutes ish and then I always do a really long hike on Fridays and then I try to hike one more kind of weekend day and so trying to fit that in. When you’re busy, you feel bad about doing it. You’re like this is while I’m wasting time like I should get back to work and and you have to just say like this isn’t a waste of time. This is my health like if I don’t have my health I I really don’t have anything you know.
11:37.72
Brad: Ah.
11:50.49
Brad: Yeah.
11:53.23
Louise: So it’s definitely something not to take for granted but I I get that it’s like you have to remind yourself. Um, why you’re taking time out. It’s just as valid and just as important. Yeah.
11:59.85
Brad: Yeah, yeah.
12:05.71
Brad: Yeah, a million percent yeah so anyway I just wanted to share that my thoughts about having a weekend to myself. What I did with it and how I feel about it.
12:21.30
Louise: Now I think it’s great. Yeah.
12:25.47
Brad: So what are you thinking about? what do you got on your mind.
12:32.41
Louise: Um, well something came up recently. Um and it was a small technical thing but it got my little brain hamster wheel running. Um and this is I mean. This is voiceover specific but I’m sure anybody in any field would relate to something small and technical that they learn where it’s sort of like a light bulb goes off or they’re like oh I never knew that. So um, it got me thinking about when you’re so. Starting on your journey or its sort of early days you know maybe you’re in your first year or your first few months even or even year years two and 3 your my or at least my tendency and I’m sure a lot of people especially introverts is to go through the plethora of a plethora of available information. Particularly online right? So you’re sifting through every Youtube video and every you know every corner of every Facebook group and all the forums and Whatsapp every podcast exactly and there’s so much information which is great.
13:30.20
Brad: Yeah, every podcast and every and every podcast that’s out there and every blog that you can find? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:43.28
Louise: But um, it’s also sort of anxiety inducing can be really overwhelming. It’s um, you can you can kind of get the analysis paralysis thing happening and sort of there. There’s just so many opinions too and a lot of the opinions are totally valid. Um, and there’s a lot of experts. Um, and I’m not even saying that with air quotes. They’re just are. There’s a lot of experts that have you know the great information available.
14:00.58
Brad: Yeah.
14:10.80
Brad: Ah.
14:17.63
Louise: For you to take and do with what you will. So here’s a tiny small thing and it’s to do with Mike placement sounds so random that I mean with doggy about that’s not my friend mike now. Ah.
14:26.47
Brad: Okay, Mike Mike is in microphone. Not your friend Mike I think you mean okay.
14:35.50
Louise: Microphone placement. So um, there are some schools of thought where you know people say it’s like ah you’ve got to be a certain amount of certain distance from the microphone you’re when you’re recording and the mic should be off access and.
14:48.42
Brad: Yeah.
14:53.18
Louise: And of course this all depends on what kind of mic you’re using and um, there’s there’s sort of there. A lot of people have this dogmatic approach. Anyways I’ve heard a lot of opinions about and by the way I’m finally using my new Mike right now.
15:09.36
Brad: Um, yay hey that means we are talking Sennheiser Toennheiser Otis oh so MK 4 16 to MK 4 16
15:12.46
Louise: I We’re talking on the same. We’re both using the yeah well my other mikes us sunheiser too. But ah, it’s not the sun heiser. This is the shotgun correct. Yeah, we’re both using the M K for sixteen point. So.
15:27.93
Brad: To nerd out a little bit about microphones.
15:30.87
Louise: Um, anyway, so I did a lot of research after I got this mic ah on Mike placement and there seemed to be 1 really prevalent school of thought over and over again about that very thing. Now and I’m not going to get into what that is because I don’t think it’s actually that part of it isn’t important. What’s more important is that shortly after I got in after I’d done all this research and I got it all set up I had a ah live direct session that I had to be in and um I first met with the. The audio engineer so live direct from my studio just to make that clear with the new mic and met with the engineer um and he basically got me to completely change my mic placement and it was really interesting because it was the opposite i’ve.
16:24.35
Brad: Ah.
16:27.46
Louise: Everything that I’d heard read saw anything and um I I guess at the time I was like ok maybe that is specific to this particular ah genre or this particular audio engineer or whatever right. Because there’s a million variables which I think is also important to note. But then I did some coaching with I was talking about coaching with Tina Morasco and she essentially reiterated the same thing that engineer had said about Mike about this particular Mike placement.
16:46.45
Brad: Okay, right.
17:00.44
Brad: Interesting.
17:06.20
Louise: Um, and so it got me thinking about how you can waste a lot of time and like anxious energy and getting overwhelmed um sifting through information online that. May not help you Ah so in this case I found out something really important by being one on one with people and as an introvert that’s sort of where your avoidance thing right? like you’re like oh you know I don’t want to ask what I don’t want to ask this question I don’t want to so.
17:35.82
Brad: Ha ha.
17:43.42
Louise: That was sort of my takeaway that I was like ok I need to try and um, you know, get get answers like that Maybe more frequently, especially as your business moves forward and you’re wanting to get a little more. Maybe tighten tightening things up technically or whatever it is that you’re looking to improve um that you know one on one with experts is going to be a much better Idea. So.
18:05.97
Brad: Um.
18:13.41
Brad: Yeah, well and so I what I think I what I I think I hear you saying and I think I and and I think I don’t think I would be the first one to sum it up by saying um.
18:30.10
Brad: Free information is great, but it only takes you so far right? and that until you’re ready to seek out actual people and pay them for the information they have all you’ve got to work with is free information does that sound like kind of what.
18:47.26
Louise: Yes, exactly And and I guess the in you know, not that everything that we talk about has to relate exactly to being an introverted. It’s these are all just struggles triumphs whatever with being a freelancer and working.
18:49.43
Brad: It’s at least approaching me? Yeah yeah.
18:57.86
Brad: Ah.
19:02.26
Louise: You know, sort of in a in a vacuum right? Like you’re you’re just like I and not really knowing where to turn or who you know who you can trust or but you’re right I’m you know if you’re paying someone good money That’s like a vetted professional. You know you can you can trust their opinion.
19:02.49
Brad: But yeah, it.
19:17.10
Brad: Yeah, and that doesn’t mean everyone especially in the voiceover industry that everyone who’s charging you money for their information is right? Certainly That’s not what I’m saying it is it is it is.
19:25.42
Louise: Oh my God That’s a whole other podcast show. We should actually ear earmark that because um, that came up that came up recently actually I don’t want to name names. But yeah, no, that’s an unfortunate reality as well.
19:32.70
Brad: Yeah, yeah, definitely I’d love to talk about that. But yeah, but I think it is I think what you’re kind of describing is a natural trap or or pitfall for somebody who’s an introvert to fall into.
19:41.19
Louise: Yeah.
19:52.61
Brad: And that is yeah that is spent. Thank you that is um, spending so focusing so much time on preparation and why you know instead of doing right learning instead of doing. Ah.
19:53.37
Louise: Pitfall is a great word. Yes.
20:07.92
Brad: Spending so much time going through because there’s so much information out there that you don’t yeah.
20:12.48
Louise: Yeah, and I and I also yeah and that’s a great point. It’s like you. Ah, it’s sort of the I always try to remind myself with the saying progress over perfection too because even though I got this new information about Mike placement. It’s not to say that my was terrible before it just wasn’t optimal and.
20:27.97
Brad: Hither.
20:30.39
Louise: Um, even with this podcast like that that I’ve been having when I’m doing the post production I’ve been having some like question marks in my head about why I’m getting some weird sounds and you know it’s I could have basically so you know. Um, said to you. Let’s just not record until I can work out. Whatever this issue is but it’s pretty minor audio issue but instead I’m like no let’s just keep pushing forward I’ll figure it out Hopefully at some point.
20:52.90
Brad: Yeah.
21:03.45
Louise: Um, it’s not that noticeable but you know progress over perfection. Don’t worry about these little details. You just need to keep moving forward like doing a podcast this is nerve wracking for me just just just doing this so when there’s issues. It’s like oh God Now there’s an issue you know.
21:14.40
Brad: P up. Yeah.
21:21.16
Louise: But you just you kind of just have to um override that part of your brain that wants everything to be perfect. Um, so yeah.
21:27.81
Brad: Yeah, as a side note I want to give huge thank you and um I don’t know kudos or applause I don’t know to you for taking on the technical the audio technical sides of the audio of this and I want everyone to know that louise. Ah.
21:41.46
Louise: Um, oh thank you? That’s sweet.
21:45.23
Brad: I have some background noise I don’t know if you can hear that that louise um manages all of the audio technical stuff of the web of the podcast. Um, she manages our our Zencastr she edits and compiles everything and she sends it off to me when she’s done and then that and i. Take ah I just I do the uploading and the the distribution stuff but all of the technical stuff is done by Louise and it’s it’s amazing. You’re doing an amazing job. Yeah.
22:09.51
Louise: Oh thanks Brad I appreciate the shout out. Although it was nice to have it be ambiguous in case, it was someone thought it was shitty. They can just like assume it was you or both of us if this sucks it’s louise’s.
22:19.66
Brad: Ah, maybe yeah, maybe that’s what I’m doing I’m like you guys if this sucks it’s not me. It’s not it at all. No, you’re doing an amazing job I I love the way it sounds. So yeah.
22:27.68
Louise: Oh thanks and and it’s just weird working with different software right? like I’m just used to working in in my da my Adobe audition you use reaper. But um, so when these little issues come up I like what is that why doesn’t it sound.
22:36.18
Brad: Yeah.
22:42.42
Louise: Perfect. So yeah, it’s weird but I know and I should thank you. Thank you for taking on the other sort of back backend stuff of putting it up and um and doing some social media stuff for us too because that is I am just I hate it. Ah.
22:49.64
Brad: Sure.
23:00.63
Louise: Going to really try hard though to like put up some posts about it and instead of just like hitting share I’m just going to share. Brad’s post
23:03.47
Brad: Um, yeah I thought I yeah I think it’s fair I think it’s fair to say and maybe we can talk about this for just a moment but today this very day we made the hard launch announcement and and posted on. All of the social media and everything today was the launch date through the the podcast and I know we’re 5 episodes in now. But yeah episodes published sure on on on air. Even though there’s no air involved.
23:23.17
Louise: It was yeah super exciting. Yeah, this is episode 5 yeah, we’ve got 3 in the back 3 ah public pub. What do you call it published. What’s the word on air. There’s no air involved. That’s so funny.
23:39.65
Brad: But for yeah, the first 3 are available for streaming as of the day we’re recording this not the day. Obviously when you’re listening to it. There are 5 available. Um the time machine. It’s the podcast time machine. Um, you know we’re recording it today but you’re listening to it later but you’re listening to it today for you. Which is later for us. You see what I mean Um, so super exciting and people are already starting to listen to it and to in the first few hours and reach out to us with with wonderful comments and and it’s it’s really nice. So.
24:12.77
Louise: Yeah, and and and you shared it with me but she also got entrust with me our friend Alice Everdeen um sent us both some really nice um messages about how much she enjoyed at least the first episode. So.
24:16.65
Brad: Sir.
24:23.92
Brad: Yeah, yeah, we’ll see we’ll see how she feels after a few in. But yeah I I adore her so it was really nice to hear from her I meant it meant a lot to me it to.
24:27.46
Louise: That was really sweet. Thank you Alice yeah, she might just stop listening. She’s a busy girl. Yeah, it was super nice. Yeah I meant a lot to me too.
24:42.60
Brad: Um, you.
24:43.20
Louise: So how about you? What’s some that was my little thing that had popped into my head as a sort of um you know, talking point or what have you and what anything did you have any any struggles last week triumphs anything.
24:49.79
Brad: Yeah. Yeah, can we can We talk about I would would like to talk about client management as an introvert because it’s super tricky. Yeah,, there’s a but the.
25:00.77
Louise: Um.
25:03.29
Louise: Oh hell yes I mean we’ve talked about this with you before. So I’m interested to know whether you’re still feeling like a doormat or not.
25:13.69
Brad: I’m working on it man I really am and I’ve got 1 client. Actually we both have this client to some one degree or or another that’s really challenging my ah efforts to be a pushover I’m going to call him John.
25:25.76
Louise: Oh that guy? Yeah yeah, yep.
25:32.24
Brad: Ah, he’s ah um, so he’s an Audiobook client. So He what I think he’s doing is he’s working with authors to produce their Audiobook quotes produce in quotes and then he’s hiring voice actors to narrate. The. Books So. He’s kind of a middleman.
25:52.97
Louise: To Narrate the books do all the audio engineering anything So when I know it’s just to clarify for anyone listening who doesn’t do audiobooks as a narrator or anything like that or understand how that works usually when you’re the narrator working independently not with you know to an agent or anything. Um, you are also doing or or outsourcing all of the production the engineering the editing all that stuff. So when you say that he’s producing Them. We’re really, that’s a maybe we should clarify what that means which is just that he’s working kind of as a middleman.
26:29.77
Brad: Yeah, he’s not actually producing anything he he’s maybe calling himself the producer or but but yeah in the industry producing means the person who does the casting and usually you cast yourself because you’re the narrator and you you.
26:32.20
Louise: Between the 2 No.
26:46.67
Brad: You make the decisions about how the production goes about how the book sounds um you know you usually we talk to and listen to and and try and accommodate requests by the rights holder which is either the author or the publisher. But in the end it’s our production. It’s our.
26:49.62
Louise: Yeah.
27:03.73
Louise: Um, right, Good good to clarify. Ok.
27:04.66
Brad: Product. Yeah, so yeah, that’s important to clarify. Yeah, so I’m actually the producer but he’s the quote air quotes producer I think that’s how he’s selling himself. So anyway, so he’s the middleman. So it’s always tricky because you only get what the actual rights holder wants through him to you.
27:11.65
Louise: Right? right.
27:24.40
Brad: And I think we’re calling him John he so nothing wrong with this but english is not his first language and that does provide some challenges right? Some communication challenges especially when you’re playing the telephone game with the actual person who’s paying to have the book. Produce the audiobook and so.
27:45.84
Louise: Yeah, like because sometimes they’ll have they’re the middlemen. They also have a boss that isn’t the publisher or the rights holder or whatever and then it becomes us like there’s just too many too many cooks in the kitchen. Yeah yeah.
27:52.32
Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:57.64
Brad: Yeah, it’s a network of opinions. Yeah, so anyway, so he’s pushy. He you won’t hear from him and then all of a sudden you’ll hear from him and he’s super demanding like and it’s an emergency and.
28:08.42
Louise: And it’s an emergency I know I’ve had this I don’t like that with when people do that I Just think yeah.
28:14.75
Brad: He had some payment issues. We’re doing this book and we did it in 2 installments like half upfront and then um then half you know I finished half of it and then we talked about this a little bit if you’ve been following the podcast. You’re kind of following along the process of me working through this book with this guy. Ah then then pays the second half and then I continue work. Well it came time for him to pay the second half we’re having trouble with our credit card. We can’t do it. We’re we’re working on it. It took him ah a little over a week to finally pay the second.
28:50.89
Brad: Installment So in the meantime I kind of put his production hold because I’m not going to keep working if if I didn’t know if they were yeah exactly I did a little bit of finish work and yeah I did a little bit you know, just so I wasn’t completely behind when they finally did pay. But.
28:55.11
Louise: If you don’t have a guarantee of payment of course not and that’s a lot of work to do yeah.
29:08.89
Brad: I had everything arranged with my proofer. Ah ah, who had set a time slot aside for us which then we lost because he took too long to pay me so we lost the time slot. So by the time I got it to her. Um. We we were in a whole different time slot and so that pushed things even further behind and so now he’s he’s just bugging me and you know he’s like well how about this if she’s not done. Why don’t you send it to me and I’ll send it to the rights holder and he can listen to it and if he has any notes. And like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, it can not work that way. Ah because that it’s a 10 hour book so just for him to listen through it. It’s 10 hours right? Let alone stopping to make any notes and and proofers have they they use. Um.
29:45.51
Louise: No, that’s not how it works. Ah.
29:53.82
Louise: Yeah.
30:03.95
Brad: Ah, a piece of software called Positron and they they they work sort of jointly organically and and with the the software to find mistakes but it gives you this format. That’s sort of an industry standard format and in the the you have everything you need for each mistake like what type of mistake it was. What the mistake was what moment what what times stamp It’s at what page right? and there’s no way that it is it.
30:26.27
Louise: Yeah,, there’s an awful lot of detail that goes into proofing and and it’s actually it’s it’s It’s frowned upon you don’t ever ask a rights holder or an author to be your proofer. So The fact that it was suggested by the client is like that shows their.. Maybe they’re inexperience or their lack of understanding and on that front. It’s super unprofessional.
30:45.45
Brad: Um, yeah, yeah, also also his impatience he said he’s got another book. He wants to work with me to do but he he doesn’t want to start that till we get this one done So he’s really pushing to get it done. Ah so.
30:53.33
Louise: Right? right.
31:03.82
Brad: Ah, that noise I don’t know if we can edit that out after or just leave it and if you don’t hear it I don’t know. Ah so.
31:10.71
Louise: I’m not hearing it through my headphone but I can check it and post and see if it’s really bad I’ll I’ll I’ll figure it out. Ah not now.
31:17.79
Brad: Okay, sounds good because you’re genius. Um, so and and so now he’s being really super pushy about it and I’m like I don’t know if I want if I want to do another book with it because it’s just been so Stressful. At the same time he had asked me if I know any female narrators ah because he has another book with another client that he wants to work with but they want a ah woman’s voice and so I had pushed him toward you louise and I guess he’s been super frustrating with payments on your end. You haven’t even gotten to start the project have you because he hasn’t yeah.
31:52.84
Louise: No, and I won’t do anything until he figures it out and um and he’s just very, it’s sort of like you said he hunts. It’s like that saying like your what is it?? Um, your your um emergency. I Don’t know what it is your lack of planning isn’t my emergency or something like that. It’s like I’d thank you. That’s it. Yes, Thank you say it again for the people in the back on mine.
32:09.13
Brad: Yeah, yeah, lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine. Yes, lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
32:25.22
Louise: Yeah, so I just refuse to play that game So I’m just very like that. Whatever you got to figure out dude like don’t come to me in a panic. Ah, it’s not my that is not so anyway I’m pretty much at the point now where I.
32:32.00
Brad: Oh.
32:41.28
Louise: Don’t think I’m going to move ahead once I do hear back from him again. Um because it’s not worth the stress right? like um I think I’ve I’ve had enough experience now to just sort of be able to.
32:48.24
Brad: Yeah.
33:00.67
Louise: Trust myself and what is you know, acceptable Behavior. What my boundaries are around that and clients and and I have to say 99% of clients are amazing and then there’s just a handful where you’re like ok. How much hand holding do I Want to do you know it’s just and yeah I think once you’re established enough you you have the privilege of being able to just say no thank you and wish them the best of luck kind of deal.
33:29.84
Brad: I Will also say and I think I messaged you the other day with this exact sentiment I’m reaching a point where I Actually it’s it can be satisfying turning down a client that’s going to either be difficult to work with not going to. Be able to afford you and ah and you’ve just you you like it’s a little satisfying for me now to be able to say cool I’m glad you like what I do because they you know they’re like we love your voice. We think you’d be perfect for this but we can only afford x.
34:08.28
Louise: And you’re like then you can’t afford this voice and this expertise and this this professional studio and yeah, yeah.
34:09.30
Brad: Right? And your rate is x times 3 Yeah exactly there’s a reason you like my voice. Yeah, there’s a reason like my voice in that voice costs and I’m not certainly not at the top of the gva rate guide. You know what? I mean I my prices are reasonable and moderate.
34:26.81
Louise: Well, you are for audiobooks. Yeah, and so am I I Yeah um.
34:28.76
Brad: Well yeah for Audiobook I That’s true just because because I don’t mind not doing them. Let me put it that way if I’m going to do them. It takes a lot of time and away from my other work in marketing. So I charge what I charge and if you can afford it. Let’s go and if not that’s ok yeah.
34:42.99
Louise: Yeah, yeah, I’m in the exact same boat with that and I’m so happy to be there. Yeah.
34:49.33
Brad: Yeah, um, and I’m starting to feel that way in general and you know it’s hard. It’s so hard. It’s so hard when you don’t know when the next job is coming because there’s no way to know. Ah you know and I I think so too.
35:01.58
Louise: Yeah, and I think all freelancers get that like that is just yeah, you it’s it’s you were riding a roller coastaster all the time there are massive highs and equally as ah, low lows and not a lot in between and.
35:05.86
Brad: Yeah I.
35:10.39
Brad: Yeah.
35:19.59
Louise: You’re yeah, it’s not for the faint of heart. That’s for sure.
35:22.90
Brad: Um, yeah yeah and um yeah I don’t know so all all I’m saying is and I don’t I don’t I’m trying to think of why I bring up the story of John other than it’s an interesting story. Ah, it’s an interesting story of how. Challenging it can be to work with a client It’s an interesting challenge for me that because this is happening at a point where I’m saying hey I need to reevaluate how much of a pushover I am how much of a doormat I can be. I you know so at the same time I’m reevaluating reevaluating and thinking a lot about that I have this really challenging client who’s requiring me to say and and so I guess an example of that is when he sent me the message saying hey can you just send me ah send send it to me and I’ll have the. My client listened to it and I said you know what I said that’s that that’s just not going to do I said I my proofer is already most of the way through the book I have to pay her regardless of whether we exactly and and.
36:27.15
Louise: You’ve already. Yeah, you’ve already shelled out the money as well. So.
36:31.80
Brad: You know and I said and I explained you’re you’re guys not going to return it in the right format. It’s going to take him longer to do it than it’s going to take her to finish it I said we’re just we’re on the fastest path to completion right now and and he just has to accept that.
36:42.54
Louise: Yeah, and it’s sort of that fine line too. If like where someone someone may frame something in terms of like they’re trying to help you or that it’s somehow more collaborative than it actually is. And so in the case of audiobooks where you’re working independently and and this is even outlined um like in the Narrator’s Roadmap. You can read this. This is very accepted industry wide is like the narrator is making and I know this doesn’t have to do with necessarily proofing but the narrator is. Is their own. They are their own director and so you know sometimes you’ll have people be curious. Um, maybe just you know before they start working with you or whatever about artistic choices with their book and it’s like you know I wouldn’t tell you how to write a book.
37:21.48
Brad: Yeah.
37:36.20
Brad: Um, right? yeah.
37:38.88
Louise: You’re not going to tell me how to narrate your book and that’s sort of that’s actually hard for people because the book a book is ah their baby I mean it takes a long time to write a book but it also takes a long time to learn the skills required to narrate a book and um, they’re just there.
37:52.14
Brad: Ah.
37:54.89
Louise: You know if you if you’re out there and you’ve written a book and you want you want to hire a narrator. You’re not the director like you’re not a film director that’s not in your wheelhouse. That’s you have to let it go and so and it’s not understood and that’s where that first 15 or whatever that cut you know and I’m I’m really clear with people. But before.
38:04.89
Brad: Um, and a lot of times that’s not understood you.
38:14.85
Louise: Before I even set up a contract but but even as the process goes along is like once that sample is sent and that can be you know, um sections of the book that that make up 15 minutes or 1 section you can ask them what they would prefer as well like maybe there’s multiple voices and they want to hear how you’re going to portray that.
38:26.71
Brad: Um, yeah.
38:34.26
Louise: Um, but once that’s sort of approved. It’s like now it’s it’s in your hands. It’s not. There’s not some back and forth happening where now if you submit the first half of the book. Um.
38:38.36
Brad: Um, yeah.
38:47.85
Louise: You know in that sort of ah installment setup that they then get to go through that first half and say well actually I don’t like the artistic choice you made with this particular character. Whatever um yeah.
38:51.38
Brad: Yeah. Yeah, and I I actually had to do to address that with John as well because I turned in the first half and he came back and he said cool. You know the the rights holder will listen to it and we’ll let you know what notes we have and I’m like no no, no, no, that’s not like that’s just to to.
39:09.40
Louise: No no, that’s ah how this works.
39:14.19
Brad: Put that in your pocket that that’s done right? like that’s shared with you so you know that that work has been completed. It’s not like you had the first fifteen minutes if you had notes after that and we addressed those notes and you were happy so we were moving forward here. It’s not I can’t go back and rerecord.
39:30.13
Louise: Yeah, and my only exception to that which I also make sure that my client understands clients understand is if I have grossly misrepresented some section of something like ah or or misunderstood it misred it misunderstood it. You know, even if it’s all proofed and I’ve got all the words in and everything. But for some reason it’s completely off Absolutely of course I’m going to fix it. But yeah beyond that now.
39:53.85
Brad: Um, yeah for sure for sure and like the old story probably completely is is apocryphal the right word completely made up. Ah, you know you hear.
40:04.48
Louise: What.
40:10.10
Brad: Oh I got to the end of the book and then in the last paragraph it mentioned that the main character was scottish so I had to go back and redo the whole book and it’s that’s always done is like a lesson in how you should read the book first there are a thousand I I don’t know why that sir needs to be told there are a thousand reasons why you should read the.
40:17.34
Louise: Oh no.
40:28.23
Brad: Ah, fiction especially book first. Ah, we don’t need to make stuff up. Maybe that did happen to somebody I’m not saying anybody’s lying I Just I’m skeptical that that’s an actual thing that’s happened or an exaggeration if nothing else. Ah, but um, where was I going with that man.
40:44.56
Louise: I don’t know I was about to ask you if you’re ok, everything. Okay there and in Baltimore there.
40:47.82
Brad: I got on a tear. Ah boy um maybe I need more ventilation in my booth and get lightheaded or something I don’t know.
41:00.12
Louise: Ah, ah it is hot in here that reminds me we were watching ah only murders in the building have you seen that with Steve Martin and there is that scene where they’re they’re recording the the podcast in. Um oh i’ve.
41:06.75
Brad: Aha Yeah, we we watched I think we watched the first season.
41:14.10
Brad: Ha ha.
41:18.96
Louise: Forget the actress’s canadian um, it’s is it Martin short. Yeah and Steve Martin yeah and there Steve Martin’s not canadian and he’s american is Martin Shortz canadian or is Steve Martin oh god I don’t know i.
41:19.85
Brad: Martin Actress yeah Martin Short yeah and Steve Merton I think they’re both see martins canadian to.
41:33.23
Brad: He might be if he’s not he should be an honorary canadian because he’s in with that whole like 1970 SEra of Canadian comics like.
41:37.49
Louise: He should totally be an honoramerican. Yeah, but there are did they’re doing that scene in in Martin Shorts closet where they’re recording the the podcast I was like oh my god every voice over. Every voice of a person I know is going to relate to this so hard like just sweating in a walking closet or even a not a walking club I’ve never had to work in a closet but I can have match how hot that would be so funny. Made me laugh.
41:54.83
Brad: Yeah.
42:01.10
Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah, so anyway, that was John I don’t know what was like I was before I got off of my tear of a tangent or tangent of a tear I don’t know what it was ah I had a point I was leading to but. I don’t know everyone who’s.
42:19.86
Louise: Ah, well I mean you were just talking about I sort of asked you if you’re I mean it’s early days because you just went full time but the whole being ah you know, ah having good boundaries with clients and and that.
42:26.42
Brad: Yeah.
42:36.90
Louise: How your introversion kind of plays into that and not you know, ah not having a good balance between um, being a yes person and then just going like completely the opposite into like Asshole mode. Yeah yeah.
42:36.16
Brad: Yeah.
42:50.69
Brad: And then being a jerk. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, so that’s a constant struggle for me. Yeah, and I’m happy to to share that um is embarrassing as it kind of is ah it kind of.
43:03.36
Louise: I Don’t think that’s embarrassing I feel like so many people struggle with that. It’s like where do you? What’s the line when do you say? No when do you call somebody on taking advantage of you you know? or um.
43:07.49
Brad: I Guess so but at my age you I I know but you yeah but you’d think I’d be better at calling somebody and taking advantage of me without flipping over into overreacting mode I guess.
43:22.66
Louise: Well, but the because that I think that comes from because you’re you’re towing a line of acceptance of whatever for so long and then it there just becomes a tipping point where you’re like yeah you know? Yeah, you’re just not going to take I’m not taking it anymore right.
43:33.62
Brad: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, no more yeah.
43:40.79
Louise: Ah, but they don’t know that you’ve been taking it. They just think that’s normal so it’s sort of you know, also putting yourself in someone else’s shoes Even if they’re pushing for more and more and more like cheaper faster better. Whatever um, and and you know doing these things like oh well I’ll take it to.
43:55.55
Brad: Aha.
44:00.15
Louise: The author to prove it and ridiculous but they don’t know that right? they might not they might not have the self-awareness they might have the experience and so that’s when our sort of like and I’m not saying I’m any better I’m just saying I’m learning this right? Your emotions can take over.
44:01.13
Brad: Yeah, that and that’s right.
44:16.59
Brad: Yeah.
44:18.35
Louise: You can start to jump to conclusions that people are deliberately trying to take advantage of you and they might not be now that doesn’t mean that you have to work with them. You know if you’ve had a bad experience Once? Maybe you want to think about that and be like well that’s not really worth my energy or whatever. But. Yeah, that was my take on what you were getting at.
44:36.76
Brad: Yeah, and I think that’s no and I think that’s I like that and and I think that’s something I’m going have to think about well in hard if if John wants to work with me in another book and um.
44:51.22
Brad: But it also you know what? and it also that comes down to where you are in busyness too like if I’ve already got 3 books in the queue and someone comes to me and I know they’re difficult to work with I’m much more likely to be like well here’s what I can do for you if you don’t like it. Good luck. You know good best of luck to you and and off you go. But if you’re kind of hungry for work and you’re like I don’t have anything lined up right now then you’re much more likely to take a chance and to be a little more lenient.
45:11.37
Louise: Yeah.
45:26.43
Brad: And then you get busy a week later and you’re still working on this for under circumstances that it might be less than ideal then you’re like oh why am I doing this project. Why did I say yes to this and so then that frustration can probably lead to um to to then like then being.
45:37.93
Louise: Um, yeah, ah.
45:45.85
Brad: Irritated with the the client because and it’s not their fault. You agreed to it but that doesn’t mean that you don’t still have human emotions. So.
45:53.30
Louise: Exactly and I think you know as I’ve moved forward in my business excuse me I’m way less likely to take those chances with with clients. On a long form project like basically as soon as I see the red flags if it’s long form I’m Out. It’s just it’s too much Time. It’s too much energy. Um, short form. Sure I mean Yeah, if there’s not a lot coming in at that particular time and.
46:18.84
Brad: Yeah.
46:25.31
Brad: Yeah.
46:31.43
Louise: Um, maybe they’re kind of like sort of showing themselves to be you know whatever X Y and Z fill in the blank. Um I’ll probably do it at least once but not for long form.
46:44.22
Brad: Um, because let’s be honest, if you yeah if you’re doing a 300 word or 3 minute explainer video. You know if if you have to completely redo it because they just weren’t happy. That’s not that’s not going to set you to.
46:59.10
Louise: That’s no skin off your nose now. No.
47:01.40
Brad: Exactly or very little skin. But if you get halfway through and a 9 hour audio book and they’re like when we think you should have done a different that’s a problem. Yeah yeah.
47:13.81
Louise: Um, yeah, or they’re having issues with payments and you can’t complete the book and it’s like that’s just not that is not good for every but anybody you know, nobody’s going to feel good at the end of that so things to avoid anyways. So we’re at um, we’re at 47 minutes now
47:19.27
Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
47:25.60
Brad: Yeah time yeah Morelo running a little long. That’s all right I guess but new yeah I think let’s I you know what I’m going to go on on a limb here.
47:31.96
Louise: Um, no, it’s not true I mean that’s around what we’ve what we’ve been doing So um I think we can probably wrap it up.
47:42.34
Louise: Ok, ok, no wait that was for the last one or for the last one that’s like on air. Oh see what? ok.
47:44.80
Brad: I kind of liked our closing tag last episode that we came up with. Do you remember what it was. You can be heard even when you’re using your inside voice I kind of like that. Yeah know the last one that we recorded episode 4
48:02.23
Louise: You can be heard even when you’re using your inside voice all right. You say the first part this time because I think I said the first part last time I don’t know.
48:03.76
Brad: We were talking about that or we came up with that. Yeah, you know I can know um.
48:15.45
Brad: Um, okay, cool. Oh and you should whisper the inside I like when you whisper the inside voice part I think that’s cool. Okay, you can be heard.
48:19.25
Louise: Ok, even when you’re using your inside voice.
48:26.88
Brad: Um, see I like that I like that I don’t know you you don’t sound convinced. What do you mean.
48:29.57
Louise: Um I I was so close to just screaming at because you were like I like it when you whisper it. So I like I just had this moment of like what would happen if I just screamed it I know and that’s why I didn’t.
48:44.46
Brad: I’m glad you didn’t because I’m wearing headphones. Um, ok well think about that I I am nominating that is our official closing tagline you sound less convinced.
48:48.57
Louise: But.
48:54.99
Louise: Huh I You know what I have to say I’m probably not going to go along with that because it was your idea and um, yeah, that competitive striken me is you will be. You will be because I’m going to come up with a a killer.
48:59.92
Brad: Yeah, well I’m I’m I’m sorry I even suggested it then you’re right? Yeah yeah, that’s that’s a good point. How about you come up with something that’s that’s my you will get to that. That’s my entry.
49:11.81
Louise: Closer.
49:18.30
Brad: And if you come up with something. Ok.
49:18.80
Louise: It’s your entry I think what we should do is we should keep going with it because it’s it’s going to devolve into absolutely ridiculous like not even good ones and then if we have enough listeners like let’s say we have you know. Maybe 5 people or just a number that’s you know more than one. Um, we could set up a poll where people could vote for it. Their favorite. Yeah or if they hate all of them. Um, they could make a suggestion even yeah.
49:38.72
Brad: All right, all right? We could do that that could be fun. Yeah yeah, yeah, oh they can suggest. Yeah, absolutely okay I like that.
49:54.50
Louise: Yeah, yeah, and maybe the winner could record it if it happens to be a voice actor doesn’t have to be they could record it and we could put it on. Do see I suddenly I’m thinking. Yeah these amazing ideas right? as we’re about to hang up. Oh I know ok.
49:56.20
Brad: That’s why you’re in charge. Whoo.
50:04.41
Brad: Yeah, yeah, that’s why you’re in charge though because you have all the good ideas. All right was good talking to you Thanks for sharing.
50:13.60
Louise: Um, it was good talking to you too and have a great weekend and we’ll Reconvene sometime next week. All right? Hi brad.
50:21.94
Brad: Yeah, yeah, looking forward to it right by Louise.