Episode 1.2 – Price Negotiation: Is Brad A Pushover, Or A Jerk?

This Episode:

In Episode 2, Louise and Brad share a little more about themselves, talk about their own journeys as actors, freelancers and voice actors.

Brad shares a bit about his audiobook recording process.

Then they discuss holding your ground on pricing, as an extravert… should you be a pushover or a jerk?  Don’t offer discounts that aren’t being asked for!

Louise shares a story about introducing herself to a STRANGER!  Hear the tale, and how it paid off.  How do you talk about what you do?

And finally, Brad does not like icebreakers or audience participation.

Also, we try a new closing tagline!

Louise’s Website
Brad’s Website

Transcript:

Brad: Hey we yeah I think we got it? Yeah hey louise how are you doing.

Louise: Hello oh oh ok there we are um, hi Brad I’m pretty good I’m pretty good just ah. Having some technical difficulties this morning. Apparently.

Brad: Yeah, well I mean we’re new to all this So we’re kind of learning kind of learning as we go.

Louise: That’s true. That’s true and I was really wanting to get my my new Mike um set up on this but it’s not. It’s just not showing anything so I don’t I don’t really know.

Brad: Yeah, yeah, well maybe you can get it sort of for next week for nothing that the next episode. Yeah I know you I know you will welcome to inside voice.

Louise: Anyway I think we will. Yeah yeah, anyways, happy Monday welcome to inside voice inside voice.

Brad: Love how you do that? Um, cool. Well, what do we? What do we want to do today. What are we talking about today. Oh yeah.

Louise: Um, well so last week you asked me a few questions and then we both kind of answered um but I realized we didn’t really just talk about the basics.

Brad: Um.

Louise: I think we were kind of thinking. Well we know who we are but nobody else does. so um so I was going to ask a few questions and we can both kind of very briefly just answer. We don’t need to go to in-depth I don’t think but so ah, Brad ah tell us. How long you’ve been in voiceover.

Brad: Ok, all right. That’s a good question. Ah I it’s been I think a little over 3 years ah and until three weeks ago um I was part time I mean I I had a day job still. And but as of January first so a few weeks ago I left the day job I set that aside and I’m a full-time voice over a professional now. Yeah it. Yeah thank you thank you it it is

Louise: Woo which is so exciting and I’m so happy for you and so proud of you. Um, it’s really cool.

Brad: Yeah, it is very exciting. It’s ah pretty. It’s scary. But I I I’ve prepared for this for a long time I built my business up to where my income was where I was hoping it would be in order to leave not I. Can’t say I’m matching my day job income yet. But ah now that I’m not just working nights and weekends and always exhausted from doing you know a full-time job plus another pretty much full-time Job. Um. It’s giving me a lot more time to do business development and build my business and Audition. So It’s It’s super exciting and.

Louise: Yeah, no, you’ll find that that’s ah it’s a huge game changer for sure. Yeah, and I think to your mental health too.

Brad: Yeah, it’s already made a big difference. So it’s exciting. Absolutely I will say even in the first few weeks it’s already making a huge difference in mental health in my marriage and as a father and um, just having more time you know.

Louise: Yeah, excellent.

Brad: Is great. But I yeah, so yeah I I think we talked about this last week but my background is in theater as a stage trained staged actor. Ah back in the 90 s ah and I moved after college after I got my. Bachelorer’s degree I moved to Chicago and was miserable. There. There’s a lot of great theater happening there in the 90 s but they didn’t I don’t know I I was super intimidated I guess I didn’t even know I was a introvert yet then so I didn’t even know to be looking for the tools to get around that. But um was just too afraid to audition and network and build myself into anything and so I was not very successful had friends in Baltimore that were doing all kinds of fun crazy performance art. So I moved here because it was just more fun and so much more accessible and they were people I already knew.

Louise: Um.

Brad: Doing it and I spent 20 years here doing a little theater but a lot more performance had a band and I was um, doing and how much of this. Do you want I don’t know I could go on for an hour I

Louise: It’s is it more in depth than I was thinking but I mean it’s great I Love it I’m enjoying that the star. No do not apologize.

Brad: Sorry um, ok, ah ah and really got into performance vaudeville type performance and and had a band and and was doing a lot of sort of baggy pants vaudeville kind of stuff in the burlesque scene and then of course. Ah. Covid hit and my band we couldn’t even practice anymore. Um, because of some some um immunity issues of a family member in the band and so I just was sort of at a loss I just had this need to perform. Um. That I’ve never been able to escape and a friend sent me an audition for ah audio drama that I auditioned for and I thought this is cool I wonder if I could do voiceover I always thought you had to live in la or New York to do voiceover right. And I started to do some research and listen to some podcasts and realizing you didn’t have to and um, yeah, yeah, absolutely and so I started to build my you know, starting with beginner equipment and and doing I guess you know getting work where I could um and then.

Louise: Um, yeah, that’s right and you can do it from anywhere now.

Brad: Freelance sites or whatever and just sort of just sort of building my experience getting coaching figuring out how to translate stage acting into voice acting which turns out our very very very very very different things. Um.

Louise: Right? Wow! What a that was just when you think you know what you’re doing. You’re like no no, actually you don’t yeah I had that same experience. Yeah.

Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you think it and in some ways I guess it gives you an advantage but in other ways you just have to unlearn and relearn a lot of stuff.

Louise: Yeah I think there’s like that the the some of the crossovers are sort of like um so script interpretation at the actual acting skills because you need acting skills Improv skills those kinds of things but um.

Brad: Um, yeah.

06:31.91
Louise: You know when you get into commercial script and stuff like that. It’s completely different so you have to understand that kind of structure and it doesn’t translate at all.

Brad: Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I like to say like when you’re a stage actor. You’re you’re trained to push your voice out to the back of the audience right? But in voiceover, you’re literally genuinely. Speaking in you’re you’re speaking in their ear right in your audience’s ear. So It’s a much much much different style of performance.

Louise: Yeah, well and you have to learn things like the Mike Technique and you know what is proximity effect and how does that you know impact what I’m doing versus you know? Yeah yeah, totally totally.

Brad: Yep, yeah yeah, so that’s how I that’s how I came to it ah probably longer answer than it needed to be but ah yeah, that’s where I come from how about how about you.

Louise: Yeah, no, it’s great I Love it. Um, well I’ve also been so this is year. Ah I’m going into year four. But I’ve never been part time I’ve always been full time because ah I did the thing that everyone tells you not to do which is like I.

Brad: Yeah, yeah.

Louise: Actually left my career and then pursued voice over. So um I don’t recommend to anybody that that you do that. But for me, it just came down to a because I’d sort of had you know I’ve had a lifelong dream of um, you know, being a career actor.

Brad: Yeah.

Louise: But that is it’s very difficult to do that. Um, as a screen actor or stage actor like that’s that’s one of those you’re just I feel like you You don’t have any. You’re not in charge of your careers.

Brad: Maha.

Brad: Yeah.

Louise: In the same way that you can be in voiceover nowadays pardon me so you can actually build a business and voiceover and you can do it from home and that’s you know? um.

Brad: Ah.

Brad: Yeah, it. Yeah and it’s I think it’s a very different like when you’re an actor even if you’re ah um, maybe not if you’re like ah a utility actor doing lots of industrial stuff I guess but no actor really wants to that to be their career right. But if you’re doing regional theater or you’re doing film and commercial Work. You’re not really building. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe there are on-camera actors who are building or or stage actors who are building a business but I always felt you’re you’re more of a person trying to get. Each job instead of approaching it as a business.

Louise: Yeah I sort of say it like that too is um, you know you’re you’re beholden to an agent or agents for 1 thing. Um, and then really everything’s in the hands of casting directors beyond that so you yeah, they.

Brad: Yeah.

Louise: You just don’t It’s hard to build an actual business like you can be a performer you can be in the performing arts. But most people ah who are on screener in theater and getting paid are also working other jobs often in the service industry right? So what was appealing to me about voiceover was.

Brad: Bright.

Brad: Yeah, yeah.

Louise: Um, that you can build a broadcast ah broadcast Ready home studio and you can build a business from home doing this So anyways because I’d had this lifelong dream of doing it I.

Brad: Yeah.

Louise: I Always had it as like it was a plan B kind of thing or no I always had a plan B Um, and I think when you get rid of your plan. You know Plan B that you had you I’m not explaining this wall at all. Okay, let me just reset my brain here for a second because.

Brad: Ah.

Brad: I Knew where you were going. So yeah.

Louise: It’s just a jumbled mess. Ok so the thing is that you know you spend your entire life with this dream and it’s sort of on the backburner and you’re you’re doing it but but you’re having to support yourself in other ways which is totally realistic and that’s most people and um.

Brad: Yeah.

Louise: Your your dream doesn’t become the plan a if that makes sense like you always have a backup plan so for me because I’d sort of reach this breaking point of like how am I going to make this happen.

Brad: Ah, yeah.

Louise: I Realized that if I just didn’t give myself another option that I was going to have to figure it out So I did so that’s the short the short to.

Brad: Ah, yeah.

Brad: It’s sort of that it. Yeah, it’s sort of the the concept of burning your boats right? like you land on the foreign shore and then you burn your boat so you can’t You can’t like give up or chicken out and sail back home again. Yeah yeah.

Louise: So you can’t go back? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it’s really terrifying. Um, but I don’t know I it’s my personality though. It’s sort of like an all or nothing thing for me I I just know myself well enough. To recognize that if I was doing this part time and the other thing is my career was really all consuming. So I you know I had an opportunity to to go to a different company once I quit the company I’ve been with for over a decade.

Brad: Yeah.

Brad: Um, ah.

Louise: Ah, in that same industry and I I thought about it and thought well maybe you know I’ll do do the other thing part time and I was just like you know what? it didn’t feel right? My gut was telling me to just go for it and my partner was telling me to just go for it as well. So um I did have that that kind of emotional.

Brad: Yeah.

Louise: Cheerleader person emotional support and cheerleader person in my life to to help facilitate that too which I think is really important and a big line of credit.

Brad: Um, yeah.

Brad: Ah, well, that’s important too and I think it’s important and I think you’d agree with me for us to both acknowledge our privilege in being able to do that you know and I know I know a lot of people and a lot of voice actors for whom.

Louise: Absolutely yeah.

Brad: You know I I was fortunate enough with my day job that it covered all of my bills and more so and anything that I made in voiceover I was able to just chuck it into a savings account. Yeah, or yeah to reinvest I did not not even reinvest because once I got up and running Ah, you know.

Louise: Reinvest. Yeah, or yeah or save it and he.

Brad: All of my equipment I could afford that out of my day job salary and so I was just able to chuck 98% probably after taxes of my voiceover income is to to build a ah savings cushion for when I left and.

Louise: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and yeah and I and I would say too is like the you know the privilege that I have or had at the time was I Also you know I had a really good income so there was a healthy savings there that.

Brad: Exactly.

Louise: Um, that helped carry me for for quite a long time. So um, as well as you know the line of credit emergency. But so not everybody has that right? and I and I completely appreciate that and not everybody has the support of at least 1 loved one like your partner. Your partner’s probably 1 of the most important people if you have a partner.

Brad: Yeah.

Brad: Yeah, for sure.

Brad: Yeah, oh oh I Do now.

Louise: Um, because if they’re not a yeah if they’re not on board if they’re not on board. You’re that’s extremely difficult I don’t know how people do it if.

Brad: Um, yeah I I agree and I will say ah my wife is incredibly supportive but at the same time There were some conversations that we had to have and some figuring of things out and to to establishing what.

Louise: Um.

Brad: You know, expected budget contributions would be so on my side. It was never it wasn’t so much I Oh yeah I go for this. It was well. This is what you know this is your dream and your goal let’s figure out how to make it work but the.

Louise: Um.

Brad: We both approached it with a lot of sort of um I guess Realism just trying to really? yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Louise: Pragmatism. Yeah yeah, and I think that’s wise I feel like um, you know Irvin I did too. Ah, but in a different way. It was more sort of.

Louise: Um, you know what? I’m not going to get into it in this episode. It’s It’s so long and in depth and I’m giving you the coles notes version. So or what what is it now. It’s tldr too long. Didn’t read. Um, yeah, that’s that’s.

Brad: Ah, yeah.

Brad: Cliffs Oh I don’t know I don’t know. Yeah, yeah that that you’re at yet. Yeah yeah, cool. Yeah well I think that’s does that satisfy your question of how we both kind of came to where we are.

Louise: So that’s ah I’ve yeah.

Louise: I Think so yes, yeah, yeah, and I mean I I said an episode one that I you know might be my theater background for years too. So very similar situation to yours and that um, kind of history. So yeah.

Brad: Yeah.

Brad: Yeah, cool, what’s your next question check for question 1 check. oh okay oh all right no, no no that’s fine. Yeah, that’s good.

Louise: That was all I had for now. No Um I was actually going to ask you how your weeks been and um, whether you had any ah any big wins or any anything that was like a Big. Um. Struggle or something that came up that you wanted to talk about like.

Brad: Um, yeah, sure. So I um, yeah so ok so I’m working on this 10 hour audiobook right now and um it is about.

Louise: Right.

Brad: It’s kind of a so um, it’s sort of a study I don’t want to say study guide for Islam but it’s it’s about islam and it takes package passages from the qur’an and it’ll there’ll be a passage and then there’ll be an explanation of the passage and you know for.

Brad: Almost ah at a layman’s level which is good. Um for me, but there’s a lot of islamic words that I have to look up and so um, a lot of times in audio books will do. We’ll do um, do them in Milestones right? Ideally, you’ll.

Louise: Um.

Brad: Do a sample get hired. Do the first fifteen minutes that’s their chance to to check in and say hey stylistically can we do something different or because you’ve only done 15 minutes of it. Um, and then once you get the approval on that then you go ahead and do the rest of the book.

Louise: Yeah.

Brad: But we had set up in our our agreement that we would do a milestone halfway through ah that I would I would check in with them halfway through and share what I’d gotten done so that they knew and then and then I would get paid half right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, exactly ah and.

Louise: Yeah, some clients are more comfortable with that I totally get that. Yeah and it keeps us a bit more accountable and and on track too. If if you’re prone to procrastination like I am my a milestone setup is is actually really helpful with a long form project.

Brad: Yeah, yeah, yep, Absolutely Yeah. Ah, but what I’m on what I’m nervous about is that they’re going to come back and have some editorial like really, we’re past the point of them making editorial input and I wasn’t clear enough. Don’t think and this is something that you and I have sort of talked about off podcast. What what? it comes down to I Guess what I’m getting to that I I was kind of hoping we could talk about a little bit is that I Um, first of all I’m kind of a pushover when it comes to rates and pricing and things like.

Louise: Um, yeah.
ght? like if they came back to me and said oh you know we don’t like that I mean obviously I’m not going to redo it but you know but I tend to either be a pushover and just be like cool, cool cool sure if that’s what it takes if that’s what makes you happy or if I.

Louise: Yeah.

Brad: If I realize I need to draw a line or hold my ground on something I So I very quickly go from being a super pushover to being kind of a a jackass right? and I I don’t I I know and I and I really have no I really have a hard time being firm and.

Louise: Yeah, not not a lot of middle ground there Brad ah.

Brad: And being holding my ground and saying you know cool I hear you but this is the way it is without and also it it may be I just feel like I’m being a jackass and they’re just I don’t know. Um.

Louise: Um.

Brad: But this is something that I really struggle with and I know that it’s costing me money I know that I am undervaluing myself and I’m really in this way and I’m really working hard to identify when I’m doing it and um and trying to avoid it I I had someone this morning they reach out to me hey what would be your rate for this and how long would it take you and I.

Louise: Um.

Brad: Almost said hey it’s a slow morning. This would be my rate but it’s a slow morning I can get it done for you this morning if you let me, you know if you want us get started because I I can get it done for you this morning without a rush fee. Well normally have a two day turnaround and I typed that out and then I thought oh you know what. I raced it and I wrote ah as a two day turnaround. But if you want to do it on a rush. Let me know and that was just one moment where I caught myself being too pushy pushable pushover too nice exactly exactly.

Louise: Yeah, you’re offering discounts when no one’s asked for one and I think that’s a it’s a really big lesson is like do not offer discounts without being asked for one and even then that then you have to really think about you know who you’re working with and whether that’s worth it to you and all that kind of stuff but um.

Brad: That’s exactly it. Yeah.

Brad: Um, yeah.

Brad: And I think it comes from. Yeah I’m sorry I I think it I think it comes in part from being an introvert and I in just being afraid to like push someone else. You know what? I mean.

Louise: That’s a big lesson and I think.

Louise: Um, go ahead.

Louise: Yeah.

Brad: Ah, but I I think it also comes is a learned habit from when I was first starting and building and I I was really really worried about not getting work and so I now. Yeah.

Louise: Yeah I was going to say it. It. It’s very common and it it comes from that scarcity mindset of just being terrified that you know if you’re not willing to um, be that pushover kind of person and be the yes person. That you will not get the business and I think it’s really good to remember that I would say you know 90% of the time people who are pushing you for super fast turnarounds or cheap work or. So fast turnarounds without you know the extra um cost involved in that because in every business I mean even if you’ve mailed something expedite delivery costume more like come On. Um, anytime you you sort of accept that those people end up being.

Brad: Right? right.

Brad: Yeah.

Louise: Generally quite difficult to work with and it’s sort of that you know you give an inch and they take a mile scenario That’s I mean predominantly most people seem to have that experience and I certainly have as well. So I think it’s important to just remember like really is it worth your time.

Brad: Ah.

Louise: And to not just have blind face like you mean you’re built. You’ve built a business now like you you know you’re you’re in a position where your time is really valuable right? so.

Brad: Ha ha.

Brad: Ha ha.

Louise: Um, I just lost my train of thought again, that’s ah happens a lot.

Brad: I yeah I and I think I’m realizing something just right now as we’re talking like I think the biggest problem for me is when I try going with it with 1 per particular and I mean with us within the scope of a single client. Going from being the pushover to then trying to hold the line and then they’re like well why are you being all strict about your pricing now where you know the last 3 jobs we did together. You were like cool. Yeah, cool, whatever and so I I guess I can understand then why that would feel. Kind of whiplashy for them and like why is brad being a jerk about this all sudden. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Louise: Yeah, and can I intro for one second but I see there might be a bit of a technical issue here or do you have your your headphones on. Are you hearing yourself back? Ok because on my end it sounds really um, garbad.

Brad: Yeah.

Louise: And I’m wondering if it’s recording that way.

Brad: Um, it shouldn’t be recording that way. It should because it’s recording for me locally and for you locally and it’ll upload. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can cut that out.

Louise: Right? Ok so maybe it’s just the way I’m hearing you ok all right? Well let’s just push on here and I’ll edit that little interruption out. Yeah.

Brad: Or leave it in I Guess either way.

Louise: Ah, um, yeah, you don’t want to create patterns with people. Um, so we’re set up set up. What is it setting a precedent. Basically you’re setting a precedent for doing you know, undervalued work. Um I mean I had a thing happen.

Brad: Um, yeah, and then break them right? yeah.

Louise: So sort of similarly with a regular client of mine that sends me um, audiobooks and he you know he’s working for ah the he’s working for the actual the actual authors or the publishers. So he’s sort of a middleman.

Brad: Ah.

Louise: But he’s he’s been a really great client of mine for a couple of years now and um, sometimes he’ll send me ah book trailer stuff and every single time he box up my price because he’s looking at it through the lens of audiobook pricing.

Brad: Oh yeah.

Louise: And I have to explain to him every time like this is what it is now what I’ve done because he’s because he is so kind of annoyed by it. It seems like and because I do value him as a client for audio books as I end up just explaining it to him but then giving him a discount.

Brad: Ah.

Brad: Yeah.

Louise: And it happened again just before Christmas and I just thought to myself you know what this is but now the like the fourth or fifth time that I’ve done these trailers for him and he knows he knows why I’ve already explained this.

Brad: Aha.

Louise: And so when he came back and you know had his usual a little kind of ah being annoyed about it thing I Just very politely responded. This is my listed pricing as as per discussed um and I don’t Remember. Like let me know if you want me to set up the the contract and he came back and he was like yeah, let’s please move forward. Um, and you know he’s been very nice since like he wasn’t you know it was just like people will try to get get you to take money off sometimes and.

Brad: Yeah, because the truth is yeah aha.

Brad: Um, yeah, ah.

Louise: But but even if you don’t they value you and so they don’t want to lose you as as their person right? So I don’t know.

Brad: Yeah, ideally I had a um publisher that I was that I’ve been working with and and they usually like 2 hour books they’re kids books. There’s like chapter books for kids like each chapter is another story and they’re really cool. They’re really sort of.

Brad: Affirming and positive and you know stories for kids and then he had a longer 1 for it wasn’t for kids I think it was like ah an adult book and he wanted the same. But it was 4 hours and he wanted the same price that he’s paying for 2 hours and I’m like and I’m I already give him ah a discount because you know we work together again and again and we we sort of have a relationship and a deal but because I wanted to charge him the same rate for the longer book he but he like he’s like yes sorry I can’t afford it I’ll find someone else like. Why like we just we’ve built this like working relationship together and what I’m asking for isn’t unfair and then you’re like yeah yeah, yeah.

Louise: Yeah, and unfortunately it’s not unfair but you have to let it go as well because it’s like that’s just not worth your time and anybody like my line now is and this wasn’t always the case this takes time to to get to the point of being like.

Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Louise: I Do not compete on price. That’s not what I’m you know if you want to find someone cheaper. That’s totally your prerogative if someone wants to work for cheaper. That’s their prerogative. So.

Brad: Yeah, and and that’s what I ultimately just you know I just wished him luck and told him I hope you find somebody that you know is going to do a great job for you At the rate you’re looking for and let let me know if you need to come back around to me and he might he may I don’t know.

Louise: Um, yeah.

Louise: Um, yeah, yeah, I’ve actually had it. Ah not ah tons but a couple of times in the last couple of years where I’ve had clients to say I’m really sorry like I’ve I found someone such and such a price or whatever. Um, do you think you can.

Brad: Ah.

Brad: Ah.

Louise: Price match that I’m like you know like I’m not I’m not Home Depot or whatever now. But yeah know, best by um, you know I don’t know where this person is or what their circumstances are but we certainly have a general ah sort of rate guide that we all try and um, stay somewhere around or within so.

Brad: You’re not best buy. Yeah.

Louise: Um, but anyways I’ve had it happen a couple times where they’ve gone for that cheaper service and then come back and said you know what it didn’t work out. So um, yeah, yeah, exactly it’s ah it’s like the the thing with the picture with the horse and it’s like half drawn when my client asks.

Brad: Yeah, and I’m not surprised you know cool.

Brad: Um, right? Yeah yeah, yeah.

Louise: My client asked me to do it. You know, cheaper faster. What is it cheaper faster. So I can’t remember there’s the 3 things and you get to pick 2 Yeah, good cheaper fast. You only get to pick 2 Yeah, exactly? Yeah yeah, yeah, no, that’s that’s not how that works.

Brad: You could either have a good cheaper fast yeah pick two good cheaper fast. No yeah, no, and they want all 3 and it’s like you you just don’t get them. No no how about you? What do you have yet anything to share that.

Louise: Yeah, ah.

Louise: Um, you Well yeah I had a like kind of um, a mini introvert breakthrough thing happen and I really want to stress the word mini. Ah.

Brad: My baby.

Brad: Yeah, yeah. What what happened.

Louise: So I was out at my ah ah dog park that I go to and um, this woman showed up with her dog and I I recognized her like I think I’ve sort of chatted with her before but we were the only ones there because it’s been this. We’ve had this crazy cold snap here in Vancouver and.

Brad: Oh I think the whole country has yeah well both on the East Coast it was °F fourteen we were out walking around the the other night and it was just so cold. Sorry I didn’t mean to interrupt.

Louise: Um, yeah, yeah.

Louise: Yeah.

Louise: So called? no, that’s ok I mean I guess the difference is that even though I’m in Canada for for anybody who doesn’t know um Vancouver is pretty much Seattle weather. We just it rains all winter. We don’t really get snow. It never freezes.

Brad: But yeah Jesus Pis

Brad: Um, yeah, yeah, um.

Louise: Um, you know we might get 1 little sprinkle of snow sometime in December January but it you know it melts in an hour kind of thing. So ah, we got this cold snap and we got a big dump of snow. So just not as many people out and about um, but anyways so this this woman and I were doing this sort of small.

Brad: Ah.

Louise: Talk chat about the weather and our dogs and as usual I’m just feeling super awkward and for whatever reason we started chatting about other stuff and work came up and normally I would just kind of.

Brad: Ah.

Louise: The bare minimum and try not to draw too much attention to myself and all that stuff. But I I felt myself sort of being like no like you can you can try to like engage with this person more and so I started asking her more questions and you know being interested in and you know what she does.

Brad: Um, ah.

30:10.38
Louise: And then she reciprocated that and ah got we got talking about me doing voiceover and then and then that turned into her putting me in touch with somebody who um works for a company that does a lot of e-learning because I was talking about how I yeah because I was I was saying like yeah I do really.

Brad: Amazing. Oh that’s awesome.

Louise: The fun stuff that people always think about like you know I do video game character stuff and um, but I was like but you know one of the really great things that’s like more of a business builder if you will is is long form stuff like E learning um and and I really enjoy it too. So.

Brad: Um, is up I want to put a pin in that. Yeah I so I want to put a pin in that because I want to talk about that for a second but go ahead, go ahead.

Louise: She sorry what? Oh yeah, so anyways, she’s put me in touch with someone now. This was only a few days ago so it hasn’t actually led to anything but um I felt like that was a big deal for me because that was an in person thing too.

Brad: Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, which is hard.

Louise: Ah, where I found myself actually talking about what I do which I don’t readily um, do that with people I don’t know if that makes sense that’s hard I find it hard. Yeah.

Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s it’s hard and because so few people understand what like most people haven’t don’t it hasn’t occurred to them that voice actor or voiceover artist is a job that you could have. And so then they a they have a bunch of assumptions and or b they have a bunch of questions and it just if I were an extrovert. It’d be awesome. Just talking to them for 2 hours about that. But I’m like I don’t want to talk about this I don’t want to talk about me I don’t want to talk about my stuff. You know what? I mean the.

Louise: Um, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Brad: What I wanted to comment I do the opposite of what you just said you just said oh I do all the fun stuff. But I really do a lot of the less glamorous stuff to build my business I I don’t know why and maybe I should think about this I always start the other way around I always say oh you know I do It’s not that exciting I do a lot of you know corporate. Non-narrative stuff a lot of e-learning explainer videos um audiobooks and I and I also do a lot of kids books because that’s one of my specialties. Um, so I kind of downplay it first and then and then then if they ask? yeah yeah I I you know I do some video game and indie video game and.

Louise: Oh I am certainly not saying that I’m like not downplaying what I’m saying is when the questions get asked. It’s often. They’re leading the question with oh so what kind of stuff like our tunes and video games.

Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, or what of what what? yeah or or yeah or what? what do you? What have I heard you in oh my God I hate that question.

Louise: Because that’s what most people think of when they think of voice acting right? So I would yeah anything I would have heard you in and you’re like I seriously doubt it. Um.

Brad: Unless you listen to a lot of like ah construction Inspection e-lening certification Modules You probably haven’t heard me and yeah or or you or you listen to a lot of kids books. Yeah.

Louise: Um, yeah, are you doing any kind of ah workplace sexual harassment in the Workplace E Learningning Modules lately. So.

Louise: Ah, mental health in the workplace done any year like E learning about that lately I’m the voice of that for yeah, ah.

Brad: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it it is tricky that that is we didn’t even I don’t think planning on talking about. Ah how you talk about what we do, but maybe maybe that’s something we can get into a little more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it’s and I’ve had people like almost aggressively be like.

Louise: Um, awkwardly very awkwardly. Yeah yeah.

Brad: Well, how is there even enough of that kind of work to do and it’s like well I don’t know what to tell you but there is like a lot of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Louise: Yeah, people get their note knows how to join a little bit I actually I’ve I’ve had that experience with them with screen actors or theater actors where they they’re just kind of pissed you know.

Brad: Um.

Brad: Um, yeah I don’t talk to screen actors or theater actors anymore. Why it’s true. Oh I was leading up to a joke but that’s ok.

Louise: Yeah, I’m going to edit this part out. Um, because if any of them are listening I feel like that’s yeah I’m just going to take a note. Yeah well forget it. It’s getting erased.

Brad: Um, yeah.
Louise: Where were we get over where we what we were talking about. Um how we talk about our business. How awkward it is um how people get annoyed. Yeah people get it kind of annoyed by it.

Brad: Yeah, So anyway, yeah, yeah, so I don’t know it gets awkward because people don’t people don’t understand stand it as a as a job or a business and. If I’m in the mood I don’t mind to explain and get into it in detail. But then there again I’m like either I.

Louise: Yeah, like have you ever called such and such a place and had the automatic voice message come up. That’s maybe where you heard me Hi you’ve reached for service in English press one.

Brad: All right.

Brad: Meow. So so anyway, all right? Yeah I am they were cool.

Louise: Yeah now. Ok well. Um, next topic I can’t Well we don’t really plan these for anybody who’s not ah copped onto that yet fight so disorganized. Yeah.

Brad: Yeah. Well, it’s not even it’s a it’s a I’m going to? yeah.

Louise: Um, but I think yeah just to wrap it up I talked to ah basically a stranger and and it generated a lead and it was totally by accident but it was me kind of pushing myself out of my little Introvert bubble and um, being a little brave and.

Brad: Ah.

Louise: I still feel weird about it I like I’m not sitting here being like look at me I did this great thing I feel like like completely weird about it like I’m like oh god oh well. Thanks Fred. Yeah.

Brad: Well I’m saying look at you. You did this great thing because that that’s awesome. Yeah, it takes a lot of it takes a lot to to step outside of it and and to put yours. Yeah and then to follow up to Len because then you got to reach out to the person right? that they you know and.

Louise: Are yourself out there? Yeah yeah, I’ve done the follow up I’ve done the follow up I’m just I haven’t heard back but I’m you know unless I hear back, you’re not going to hear me talk about this again. Um.

Brad: Yeah.

Brad: I’m just going to bury this in the backyard with all of my other.

Louise: Ah, yeah,, let’s just pretend I didn’t have a let just stop? Ok. Yeah, so um, how do you think you’re going to handle this audiobook person now now that you’ve sort of you’ve you do you feel like you’ve set the president the president the precedent. And now there’s no kind of getting out of it and so you’re just going to have to moving forward with new clients make that like yeah.

Brad: Yeah, yeah I mean that’s my only option like I don’t I mean I’ll have to hold my ground if if they come back and they’ve got a bunch of editorial you know because I just can’t I can’t go back and rerecord everything like that doesn’t make sense.

Louise: No.

Brad: If they have a passage here or there or ah islamic word that I didn’t you know and I had to research every word. Oh my God Um, it was that.

Louise: Yeah, and for any yeah for anybody,, who’s listening um I did Brad and I chatted about this a bit earlier if you’re doing something like audiobooks or anything with say foreign names foreign words technical language any kind of anything like that. If you are not provided a pronunciation guide and you’re having to look everything up yourself then think about charging more for that part of your service. Let’s really yeah, yeah, because then also if you get stuff wrong because.

Brad: Yeah, think about that harder than I did because I didn’t and I’m regretting it.

Louise: You know you can look stuff up and get 5 different pronunciations and especially it’s the language you have no like of it is it arabic you’re saying it’s yeah.

Brad: Absolutely yeah, so and yeah, and what I actually did just to side track us here I created a spreadsheet and every time I came across a word an arabic word that I didn’t that I have to look up I would put it in the spreadsheet. I would find try to find an arabic person an arabic speaker speaking that word either on Youtube or uglish or you know one of the different pronunciation websites. It is a lot of work and copying the pasting the the link to the url.

Louise: That’s a lot of work. Yeah.

Brad: And then I shared that with so just so they understood that I was doing the research on every word that I came across um, but added so much work and some of them could still be wrong to the point where yeah.

Louise: Time. Yeah, yes, that’s what I mean and that’s happened to me before and I and I because I’ve set up in my contracts that if they don’t provide a permanent parentnciation guide and I do have to do all that legwork. I Have a little caveat that says all you know all words have been researched by me and I’ve gone with um, you know what seems the most likely to be the correct way according to the interwebs. Um, and if you have a preference because sometimes it’s personal preference.

Brad: Oh.

Brad: Um, yeah.

Louise: Or you know a region that they’re in in the United States that says something a certain way like you those things those things are revisions that will cost you money and I just don’t I don’t I don’t back down on that and it’s but I but I put it in the contract upfront.

Brad: Yeah.

Louise: So it’s not a surprise down the road when that happens. Yeah.

Brad: Yeah, which is the mistake that I made in this case and um, we’ll absolutely be updating my contracts going forward because now if they come back and they have a problem I don’t really have much to fall back On. And I may end up having to do a bunch of extra work because of that. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

Louise: Um I think it’s just one of those lesson learned things and unfortunately yeah, yeah, right? um now I think that’s that’s.

Brad: Cool, well anything else? Yeah, oh yeah.

Louise: That’s it on my side. What about you, you got anything else. You want to chat about here.

Brad: Um, I think that’s pretty good I did so we went out. Um, we went out to a show I don’t I don’t know how deep to in detail to get it. We went out to a show the other night and it was kind of a irreverent performance kind of thing. And they handed out Bingo cards but they were questions and the idea was that you would go around to the audience other audience members before the show and during intermission and ask them so it was like this weird like icebreaker thing. That was terrifying to me and like fortunately the rest of my group kind of felt the same way we were like no, we are not doing this but to watch the other people going on in in genuinely enjoying and having fun like going up to strangers and asking embarrassing questions. Ah I was just sort of I mean not shocking to me because I know people do that but it was just really crazy to so just to witness that and to feel so completely different about it than than these people clearly did and.

Louise: Um.

Louise: Like you’re wanting to like leave the room and like never come back? Yeah yeah, or murder everyone. Yeah.

Brad: Remember thinking? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and and just praying no one and like look I’m I I try I I like if someone came up to me I would absolutely participate with that person and just take it as a 1 on 1 thing and. Except that it was a thing that was part of what we were doing but I would resent that I was put in the position where I had to do that. Yeah I wouldn’t resent the person that came up to me to ask questions and I and I and I just thought why you know why put this extra pressure on your audience. There were other things with the show that.

Louise: In the first place. Yeah.

Brad: I had questions about um and then at the end they they took all of those and did a drawing with all of the Bingo cards so there were prizes involved so they sort of incentivized it which said me made it even more uncomfortable. Um, but she said you know we know a lot of you are. Have a hard time talking to people in our introverts and so we do We do this to help you meet other people and I’m like no no, no, no, no, That’s the opposite man.

Louise: Yeah, they don’t want to do it. It’s funny you that you mentioned this because it just reminded me I was I was part of a show um a few years ago and scripted into that show was some audience interaction that my character had to do.

Brad: Ah.

Louise: And I’m talking like not just completely breaking the fourth wall and and actually speaking to the audience like going into physically into the audience and then at 1 point like having to grab somebody to like bring onto the stage and dance with and. You can imagine how horrifying this was for me like I just I wanted to die every night I was like this is absolutely horrendous and I think the problem with it is that um, you’re right. People are most people who are in an audience. They. They they want us stay in the dark. They don’t want the lights on them. They do not want it and so as an introvert already now, you’ve got the you’ve got the twofold problem of okay I don’t want to do this and guaranteed most of the people sitting in that audience. Don’t want me to do this.

Brad: Yeah, yeah.

Brad: Ah, ah, ah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Louise: They don’t want to be the person who’s approached they do not want to get singled out. They don’t want to you. They don’t want to make eye contact. They want to think if you’re making eye contact that maybe you know nobody else is noticing or it’s accidental or it’s just part of the act and. It’s not real It’s not real then you’re not really communicating with that. You know what? I mean so um, this was at absolutely mortifying night after night hated it hated it hated it hated it. Yeah.

Brad: Ah.

Brad: Yeah, so I was happy for the people that were enjoy doing it I was a little resentful for being put in a position where I either had to participate or yeah, yeah, some people were no absolutely yeah, they were really kind of getting into like asking.

Louise: Did you get a sense that anybody was enjoying that though. Oh really ok was this like a few drinks and maybe that can help that can help.

Brad: Each other questions and like yeah I guess so yeah, that’s true and they all play. Yeah yeah, so that was just something that I ran across this week that was sort of triggered my sort of thoughts about.

Louise: Yeah.

Louise: Triggered your crippling anxiety in a public place.

Brad: Yeah, yeah, maybe that’s overstating a little bit but now all right? Yeah Yay! Oh our tag lane at the end. What did we say last time.

Louise: How I doubt it? Ok well, it’s been great chatting again. Um episode 2 of inside voice yay. Ah, last time it was this has been inside voice.

Brad: Inside.

Louise: Using our outside voice. Ah so I don’t know what it is this week do you do you want to come up with that.

Brad: Using our outside voice. Yeah, so okay, let’s yeah, how about a competitor to that. Ah shoot I should have thought of something. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, um.

Louise: On spot on spot. Come on.

Brad: Oh man I got nothing I’m I’m trying to think inside voice ah bringing your bringing your inside voice outside. How about that? Yeah, yeah, that’s not I don’t know if that’s better, but let’s try that so you say bringing your inside voice.

Louise: Ah.

Louise: All right inside voice bringing your inside voice. Nice 1 brad all right? Well this has been Louise Porter and for inside voice we will talk to you next week

Brad: And then I say outside. Outside.

Brad: bye Louise

Louise: Bye brad.