This Episode:
“It really takes people aback when you’re honest. But as an introvert who really values honesty and genuineness, to offer that to somebody, right, is kind of a pretty powerful opening.”
Brad
Have you ever wondered how introverted freelancers navigate the daunting world of self-promotion and networking? Welcome to the world of ‘Inside Voice,’ a podcast where hosts Louise Porter and Brad Grahowski, both seasoned voice actors and self-proclaimed introverts, peel back the curtain on the freelance voiceover industry.
In the latest episode, Louise and Brad engage in a candid conversation that’s as much about self-discovery as it is about sharing trade secrets. They ask the question that plagues many of us: “How do you put yourself out there when the last thing you want to do is, well, put yourself out there?”
The duo dives into the paradox of being an introvert in an industry that often demands extroversion. From discussing the nuances of user-generated content (UGC) to the anxiety of being on camera, they share their personal experiences with refreshing honesty and a touch of humor. It’s a journey through the highs and lows of facing one’s fears, embracing the discomfort, and finding a path to success that doesn’t compromise who they are.
Listeners will find solace in their stories about stage fright and the tricks they’ve learned to overcome it. Brad’s take on preparedness as a way to mitigate nervousness is a game-changer for anyone who dreads public speaking. Meanwhile, Louise’s insight into recognizing the excitement beneath the nerves is an empowering takeaway for those moments when self-doubt creeps in.
This episode isn’t just for voice actors; it’s for anyone who’s ever felt like an outsider in a world that seems to cater to the outgoing. It’s a testament to the power of vulnerability and the strength that comes from acknowledging and working with one’s introversion rather than against it.
So, whether you’re a freelancer, a creative, or just someone looking for a little inspiration to tackle your own introverted hurdles, ‘Inside Voice’ is the podcast you need to listen to. Join Louise and Brad as they navigate the freelance world, one introverted step at a time. You might just discover that your inside voice has more power than you think.
Listen to the episode now and find the courage to use your outside voice in a way that feels authentic to you.
Louise’s Website
Brad’s Website
Transcript:
Louise: Okay, I see a red dot, so yeah so we’re recording Recording too.
Brad: Yay.
Louise: Okay, cool, hey, hey, brad.
Brad: Hey, how’s it going, Louise?
Louise: Pretty good, pretty good.
Brad: Well, I’m not nervous or excited or anything. This is just a normal everyday thing to do.
Louise: Yeah, this is our first foray until the world of podcasting.
Brad: Yeah.
Louise: Well, is that the right word? Foray Foray? No, that’s the right word. No, that’s for me Foray. Okay, yeah.
Brad: I think we should note that you’re Canadian, I’m American, so there are some words that we make, that we make for next year?
Louise: Yeah, exactly, Well, let’s tell everybody where we are. So I’m in Vancouver, Canada, so West Coast PNDubs.
Brad: Yeah, I’m in Baltimore, Maryland, just outside Baltimore.
Louise: I mean we’re cross continents from each other.
Brad: Yeah, pretty much as far away as you can get and still be on the same continent. That’s not true. I guess we could be in Florida and Alaska.
Louise: You know, I’m looking at your waveform on my screen and it looks so much bigger than mine. I wonder if I’m just super.
Brad: I guess we’ll find out when we’re I think the waveform is measuring coolness, and so mine is just showing up as a little bit bigger.
Louise: Yeah.
Brad: Thanks.
Louise: At least everybody knows that off the bat. Yeah, probably.
Brad: We’re a minute and a half in, so they’ve probably already figured that out. I think we can fix that.
Louise: I’m just going to hang up, I’m just going to let you do the podcast. Okay, cool, welcome to Inside Voice, everyone Welcome. I’m like I don’t know what to say, yeah.
Brad: So what is Inside Voice? What is this podcast? What are we doing? Why are we here?
Louise: Okay, so I initially had the idea for this last year because I’m an introvert and I was thinking about ways to kind of get myself out there, push beyond the old comfort zone, and this was one idea I had.
And then, when I started thinking about more about this idea because of course initially I was like everybody does a podcast, especially in the voice of a world, so that’s true, but for some reason stayed in my brain and I thought so many of us in this industry are introverts and I feel like we hear a lot of people talking about the ways in which they’re getting business or maybe they’re on TikTok or they’re doing all this stuff, and I don’t know if it’s an elephant in the room for everyone, but it is for me and it’s like, but how? Because I’m so introverted and I don’t feel like it really gets addressed very much. So I thought, if I did this and obviously you’re an introvert and you’re a really good friend of mine and I’m not going to do it alone and I’m so glad that you agreed to do this with me that we could kind of both maybe help other people and also kind of help ourselves get out of that. Not get out of it, but maybe lean into it even. I don’t know.
Brad: Yeah.
Louise: I don’t know if that had really answered anything. No, that does.
Brad: No, that makes sense and I mean I’m here right. So obviously I think it’s a great idea. I think what happens is the people who are on the forums and the Facebook groups and stuff who are saying I’m doing this, I’m doing that. They’re all the extroverts who are explaining what they’re doing or crowing about what they’re doing, because that’s what they do. We’re all the introverts. We’re just toiling away and we’re just getting the job done and we’re just focused on the things we focus on. Not that extroverts aren’t getting the job done. I just mean we’re doing it in very different ways and you don’t hear many introverts going into forums and saying, well, I’m super shy, but this- is what I tried.
Yeah, you know what I mean, because if they weren’t, I mean the fact that they’re an introvert kind of keeps us from sharing what we’re doing.
Louise: Right, and I think, almost because I don’t see it come up really ever I don’t think anyone’s outing themselves and being like I’m kind of really like this makes me really anxious, or however that manifests for you. So I’m outing myself, but I was gonna actually just go back to that point. I thought it was really interesting that you said that you think that everybody who is out there that’s sort of loud and proud is an extrovert. Maybe they’re not and maybe they’ve figured out something we haven’t.
Brad: So true, that’s a good point.
Louise: I think that’s something to maybe explore too, because I think we want to chat with other people, like have people on the podcast and talk about how they’re navigating their introversion, and maybe that’s something we’re gonna find out, as people that we thought were extroverts aren’t.
Brad: Yeah, that’s true, that’s a good point. See, there I go just sort of making assumptions about people that I shouldn’t make.
Louise: You know and you know what they say.
Brad: But I do think that what ends up happening is that the methods for getting new business, for communicating with clients, do end up having an extrovert’s bias, because all of the things we hear and hear to do that we hear that you should be doing, or the expectation is that you are doing it, that you’re sending out 100 emails a day, or whatever.
Louise: Yes, you see what I mean, yeah.
Brad: It’s setting up expectations that are different, or maybe a different level of challenge for an introvert than they might be for an extrovert.
Louise: Exactly Because I think sometimes we try to hold ourselves accountable. But maybe those expectations are just Um, they’re more difficult for some people. So it’s not that you’re, you know, bad at something. Well, I don’t know, maybe you are really bad at something, but but it’s it’s. You know, we tend to be hard on ourselves, right, when we can’t seemingly do what others seem to be easily doing. Now, I’m not suggesting that it is easy for them, but yeah, it’s like, how do I do this thing when I’m so introverted? How do I so, for instance, being on tiktok or doing the you know? Um, so our good friend, uh, Alice, does a lot of UGC now. So that’s, you know, that’s on camera. Like, oh my God, that’s like.
Brad: Can you remind me what UGC is?
Louise: Um, it’s user generated content. So it’s like the videos that you see come up, um for products generally, um on your social media feed that just look like ordinary people because they are ordinary people, um, they’re they’re getting paid by a company to do that. Like they just look like a normal person talking. That’s like the vast majority of of ads on, like digital ads now, is that? Yeah, so um that you know, I’ve I’ve talked to Alice about it and kind of been curious about it, but at the same time, I’m like I’m not doing that.
Brad: Yeah.
Louise: Currently because I actually I really love voiceover and and I’m so focused on that and I feel like I have so much more to learn about it that I don’t really want to take on another thing. But but probably one of the primary reasons is I don’t want to be on camera Like yeah, that is not so, that’s my introversion and it’s privacy and other things.
Brad: Sure, and there’s a lot of other factors there, yeah, and that’s not to why you would decide to do that or not. But I don’t know Something I struggle with and I don’t know why and I don’t I’m certainly not alone in this it’s sort of become a a, a trope or a or a meme. I hate talking on the phone and I don’t know why. I grew up I’m Gen X I grew up in the eighties, the seventies and the eighties where I would spend hours and hours and hours talking on the phone. Like, for some reason, as an adult in this current culture, I just get cold sweats about talking to people on the phone. And this came up the other day when you and I were talking and I was trying to figure out something technical, and you’re like, we’ll just give them a call and, and I’m like on the, you mean on on the phone. Are you insane? Do you think I’m a crazy person?
Louise: So okay, who does that? Well, so this is interesting Now. Is it? Is it just people, Uh, like, is this, does this apply to everyone? Or just people you don’t really know very well? Uh?
Brad: I will, I will avoid talking on the phone to my parents, to my siblings, to my wife. Huh.
Louise: That’s so interesting.
Brad: I don’t know. I don’t know and, like I can, right. But I have to like I don’t know if this is something that is introversion universal. But I have this. I step over my introversion, I step outside of it. Do you know what I mean? Like it’s a skill that I’ve developed where I can say, okay, here’s where I am, and I can step beyond this and get myself to do the thing or the thing.
Louise: Yeah, yeah.
Brad: And I’m able to do that for phone calls, especially if it’s business oriented or it’s going to help me move, my, you know, if it’s a sales call or somebody that I want to connect to, and I find value in connecting with them like my parents or a friend or something, and I’m able to step over that, but it’s still something I have to do.
Louise: I don’t know if I have that with phone calls, but I definitely have it with video, like Zoom, like, whenever you know, I had a coaching session on Friday for voiceover and it was on Zoom and I like. Leading up to it it wasn’t just who I was meeting with and the fact that I had never met her and I was really looking forward to it and I was super excited. But I was nervous. I felt like I was in the company of a giant, you know, in the industry. But it was literally the Zoom call, like I’m like okay, I’ve got to put my video on here and that just sends me up, like, and even with my family. So they’re few and far between the video chats with my family. They’re probably just like what is wrong with you.
Brad: I think they’re in the same category for me, like phone and video. Like my previous job, I did tech support and mostly it was through ticketing system. But sometimes my boss would say, well, why don’t you hop on the phone and see if you can get this sorted more quickly? And I’m like or I could saw off my leg Right, Like yeah, yeah.
0:11:05 – Louise: So that’s hilarious. Yeah, that’s what video is for me. I don’t think the maybe a cold phone call I might be nervous about, but yeah, and I know what you mean about stepping over it too when you really have to, and I find sometimes that just saying, saying it out loud, will help me. So when I jumped onto that coaching call on Friday, I just said, oh my God, I’m so nervous. And it really helped actually.
Brad: It really helped, and I think there’s a lot of things I do to trick myself or hack my brain into doing things, and I think that’s something that we can definitely explore in greater detail, like if we can do it for certain things.
Louise: Maybe we can try it more often for these things where we constantly are just like kind of hitting a brick wall or avoiding altogether or whatever. Yeah, or even you know, silently judging. I don’t know what you’re talking about, I don’t know. No, I didn’t mean that. Speak of silently judging.
Brad: Let’s talk about ourselves a little bit more. I don’t mean our experiences as introverts, but just who we are and why we’re here.
Louise: maybe Does that sound good Sure Like do you want me to ask you questions or are you just going to talk?
Brad: Yeah, I mean we have, I think we have come with some questions prepared right to ask each other that the other doesn’t know.
Louise: Yeah, so no, I didn’t prepare any, but I’m just going to. You know, I prepared mine. Oh, do you want to go first, Because I could just copy yours.
Brad: Eight seconds before we got on the call. That’s when I prepared mine All right.
Louise: But I’ve been thinking about it all weekend and so I just sort of, yeah, I am so nervous all of a sudden, okay, just get it over with. Okay, sure, sure, rip the Band-Aid, brad Okay.
Brad: We just use these as sort of jumping off conversation points. All right, maybe. Okay, so I just want to understand that you were an introvert in the first place, and was it a relief for you to figure it out, or did you sort of always know, I guess, or did it cause more issues for you to solve than it did before you figured that out? Does that make sense?
Louise: God, I thought it was one question at a time here. No, no, no, it’s fine, I’m just joking. So I don’t remember when I maybe put that identifying kind of label onto the certain part of me, but if I think back, I’ve always been that way. But I have moments of sort of extroversion, which is always interesting for other people, because I think people just assume you know because I’ve been in theater for almost my whole life that that means I’m an extrovert, and that is definitely not the case.
Brad: Yeah, that gets to my next question, actually.
Louise: Yeah, well, it’s, and it’s one of those things too is like you know, when they you know you do your curtain call and then the audience leaves and you go and get out of your costume and you go to leave the theater and people are expecting that you’re going to go, especially on opening night, to like meet and greet. Yeah, and I just I want to crawl inside myself and hide. I hate it.
Brad: I so relate to that. It’s kind of creeping me out how much I relate to that. So this is actually my second question is that we’re both trained as actors and performers? Yeah, our listeners don’t know that, but they do know.
Louise: And our listener. My mom mom knows now.
Brad: You know, and people who know, who know me and what I do, and then they, then I I claim to be, or I label myself as an extrovert, and then they’re like what? That doesn’t make sense.
You, just, you just said extrovert, introvert.
Brad: Yes, yes, yes, sorry, and yeah. After a show, after curtain, I just want to go, I want to go hide. Yeah, I don’t want to go out and meet people, I don’t want to face people. I’ve just like exposed myself to a ridiculous level, right. I like shared myself. In a way it’s it’s probably more difficult than if I had just been naked on stage, right, because you just it’s that exposing.
Louise: I have been naked on stage, so yeah, that I just want to hide.
I don’t, I don’t, I just you know, I think the first, when I think back. Getting back to your question, when did I first realize, even, that I was perceived as not shy or extroverted by someone really close to me, and that was my dad and we I can’t remember how old I was I might have been about 11 and he, I think, had got maybe a new job, and he took me to work and he he, my dad works in the automotive industries, mechanical engineer, and so I was in this big kind of plant and he was like a manager in the plant and he like introduced me to his boss and I guess I didn’t really know what I had really done until after the fact. But I guess his boss like said hello and cordially, you know, extended his hand for our handshake and I had already kind of put my head down because I was like shy and didn’t want to make a contact or something. And afterwards my dad kind of said you know he was trying to shake your hand, or I don’t know how he worded it, but and he said why didn’t you, you know, why didn’t you shake his hand, or something like that.
And I said, well, you know, I’m just, I guess I’m shy, or whatever my dad was like no, you’re not. And I don’t know if actually he really truly thought I wasn’t shy or if he was just trying to be encouraging, or you know, get me out of that mindset, but I it’s always stuck with me of like no, but I am. You know how old were you?
I think, I was like 10 or 11.
Brad: I feel like it’s not like you were 26 or something.
Louise: And you already had yesterday. Exactly, yeah, yeah.
Brad: Yeah, because you know, I think we all sort of develop tricks and hacks and things to to handle situations like that, so that I was curious.
Louise: But yeah, if you’re 10, that makes sense.
Brad: Cause you’re still trying to figure out. I like what you said. You said when I labeled myself as that cause. That’s really kind of what my question was getting at right, like when, when did you identify and put that label on yourself? For me, I will say it came really late. I grew up all through high school, into college, thinking right, because I wanted to be an expert, an extrovert, so I thought I was an extrovert, right, and so I acted as if I were one. I had all these like tricks and I was really proud of that. I’m like I’ve got all these things that I can do to like to really sort of be confident and positive with people Like tap dancing, pulling rabbits out of hats Exactly.
And social butterfly skills right, yeah. Because I thought I was in and then at one time late, like I’m talking, probably late 30s it occurred to me true, extroverts extroverts probably don’t have to do all those things. They probably are comfortable talking to people without having to tie their shoelace three times in the left and four times in the right, Just like these magic tricks we do to like make it okay.
Louise: No, I literally am pretzeling myself into some form of what I think extroversion is during those times or those moments, and in terms of like that label, like I don’t really know, but definitely in adulthood and recently, I would say within the last decade. So definitely not, I’m going to say I’m in my 40s, that’s all I’m saying. But, yeah, not in my 20s or like early 30s, definitely not. So to me that’s pretty recent to sort of have that revelation of like oh you know, this is why I break into a cold sweat when XYZ, yeah, and I have terrible stage fright as well, which people are always like why would you keep doing theater, Like I just don’t ask complicated questions.
Brad: That is a very complicated question and I think because you know, there are a lot of introverts in the performing arts. I think it’s mostly extroverts, I think, but there are a lot of introverts and I think some of the best, most genuine, most exposing actors are introverts. They’re not there to draw in attention, right. They’re not there to like, get accolades or adoration. They’re there because they found they have this thing that they can do, this way of sharing the depths of themselves to get maybe a little I don’t know philosophical or political or poetic to an annoying degree.
I love it, but it’s a way of sharing and it’s a way of exposing oneself in a truly meaningful way, in a way that you would hope would impact people. So you’re not there to like draw in accolades to ones to yourself, but to share and hopefully impact other people’s minds and lives.
Louise: I have to interrupt because what you said about sharing those different things, that is the thing that really hit home for me, because I think when you are introverted, slash, shy or whatever words you want to attribute to that thing, and also because the audience, people who are in the audience, are not generally theater people or like involved in theater or actors, right, so they’re. Hopefully their disbelief is being suspended, they’re being taken along a journey of the story you know, no matter what it is, but they don’t necessarily know, maybe, what acting is or what good acting is. Right that it does come from you and it is sides of you. You’re not quote unquote pretending. So the fact that they generally might not know that can give you sort of the safety to expose those sides of yourself in front of people and Not have it take anything from you like you do. You know what I mean. Does that make sense? It does.
Brad: I don’t know about the not take everything from you, because I feel like I feel like a chunk has taken out of me.
Louise: But you know, but energy wise maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel like it’s really enriching and I learn a lot about myself.
Brad: Yeah, absolutely, and I want to be very careful and clear that I’m not saying that that’s a Superior way to be a performer or an actor than being an extrovert. I’m super jealous of the extroverts, and they get stage fright too, and they, they. They have their own struggles, but they’re just different than ours and they also bring their own Things to the table that that we really have a hard time with.
Louise: So I don’t, I don’t, I don’t know. I’m exclusively just talking about my experience. I don’t know, but yeah, from a theater standpoint, being on the stage, that’s what that’s. What that is for me is like I. I have full permission To show these sides of myself, you know, within the context of a story and respecting the playwright, all those things. But the audience might not know that that’s actually me, so maybe that’s makes it easier. I see what you’re saying, yeah yeah, cuz, cuz they they’re acting. They’re such a good actor.
Brad: Yeah, they presume.
Louise: About me, just, oh my god, like I just mean that that’s the assumption, I think, of most Folks that are audience right.
Brad: Yeah, that’s interesting. Yeah, yeah, I like what you’re saying.
Louise: They’re not thinking you’re laying yourself bare. They’re thinking yeah, it’s pretend.
Brad: They’re. They presume you’re wearing a mask and that you’re, you’re doing make believe and you’re pretending to be somebody. Which is fine by me instead of like Painfully bearing who you truly are as a human.
Louise: Yeah, cuz you’re finding the sides. You know the different things within you that are. Anyways, I could go on up, let’s get off that soapbox. Um, okay, so did that answer your first question.
Brad: That answered my first two questions actually great. Yeah, and you know my last. I had more like my questions were compound questions and my second one ended with why don’t we just sit in our rooms and write poetry or whatever? Sometimes I think that would be so much easier, but it’s just not. That’s not what I do, so I don’t know.
Louise: Is that a question for me? Yeah why don’t we sit in our rooms and write poetry? Well, um I. Could, take out a journal that I had as a teenager, that would Be evidence of that. Now I think, but, but, why did you, though that?
Brad: why were you drawn to perform and to be an actor then? And I think we’ve already sort of answered this question but the question is why? Why did you feel drawn to become an actor and a performer when it’s so much more Easy?
Louise: when I look back, I’ve always been doing things like you know, sitting in my room and pressing record and doing like these, like pretend like I’m the radio DJ and making commercials and stuff like that, like when I was really quite young, and then putting on performances in the backyard for, like, the local neighbors and things like that. But I never thought about wanting to be on stage and be an actor until I was in high school and a bunch of my friends were like you should try out for the school play and I was In grade 11 I think I was 16 and I ended up getting the lead role and we took it to a festival, a regional festival, and I won the best actress award and I I was like hooked.
Mm-hmm and it just it was just something about I Don’t know. I think sometimes you just have something inside you and you connect to something, and for me, that thing I really connected with was a play and and Performing that character and being on stage with those other people and everything that’s kind of involved in a production. It’s pretty magical place to be. So, yeah, I just fell in love with that and I never stopped.
Brad: Yeah, I got into theater on accident actually.
0:26:05 – Louise: And say on accident, we say by accident, by accident.
Brad: I got, I got into acting with accident. No, I, I was in community college. I like wanted to, kind of wanted to do it in high school but, like I figured, everyone else doing it had a lot of experience and I had none and I just didn’t think I, I didn’t think I could do it, so I didn’t even try. And then in I was in community college and I was. I thought I was late for a class, but I was. I thought it was 10 minutes late, but I was 50 minutes early I time and I I’ve really had to work hard to have a good relationship with time.
So I was walking around looking for the class and I I peeked my head into a classroom and there were a group of people and I knew a couple of them and they called me in and said sit down, sit down. And it turned out to be a meeting of the, the, the theater club for the community college, and Then I just got swept into it from there. It was weird, like I didn’t, I never sought it out. And then they had their first audition. It was a series of short plays and I got cast and like eight of them I think wow.
So it was like and just from the start it just felt like something natural that I was just there to do and I Just, I, just you know you have that sort of Initial success and that feeds you enough. And then you, you’re constantly you never get that kind of like Affirmation again, like it’s super hard to ever get again, but then you spend the rest of your life kind of trying to recreate that but maybe I don’t know that I had that, but I yeah.
Louise: I definitely. When I think about it, like I’m like it wasn’t, it’s not something that I had to think about doing, I just found myself doing it a lot and really loving it, and so it’s not like you know, I studied it, I went to school and all that stuff too, but even doing that was like a no-brainer. Yeah and it’s the same with voiceover. It’s like it. This just is. Now, this is what I do, like I don’t, I Don’t have to Overthink it. I guess I don’t know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Brad: All right, well one. Let’s move on to my last question that I’ve got and I think we’ve already talked about this a little bit and we’re running long on time, so I don’t maybe we don’t want to go too deep into it and this. We could do a whole discussion about this. What are just a couple of hacks that you use to get around being introverted, especially when it comes to promoting yourself and your business? And when I say getting around, maybe that’s not right a way to put it, it’s like saying you know, I don’t, I know there are downsides to being an introvert, there are challenges that come with it, and what are some tricks that you use to get past those or work through them?
Louise: I’m trying to think like I don’t think I have anyone hacked that I can be like here’s my million-dollar idea for all you introverts out there. I, I think so. There was a thing about stage fright that I learned a while ago that sort of helped me. It’s never got rid of my stage fright, but it’s it’s helped to calm me down, because it’s a two-fold maybe thing. Now that I think about it, it’s am I actually nervous or am I really excited about this?
Hmm and the answer is both. Sometimes the answer is I’m just scared shitless. But you can find the thing to be excited about. And then you can kind of say you know these butterflies or whatever physical manifestation you have, that is, those you know Nerves, that you can sort of marry the excitement to them as well. It can take that fear Down a notch. I’m not saying it gets rid of it. What was the second thing?
Brad: Oh, it just, especially when it comes to promoting yourself or your business.
Louise: Yeah, so yeah, that was stage fright specific, but I brought it into certain things that I do. So, being on a coaching call or I mean anything where I’ve had to put myself out there and I’m like losing my mind For whatever reason, like even I had a live direct session in December. That was a really big deal for a big game and Big, big casting director and it was for my home student.
I was so nervous you were excited, but yeah, no, Absolutely why had to like and that’s part of you know your business too it’s like actually doing the work and being on a live, direct call. Your, you know your. That is as most out there as you can get you everything you know.
Brad: You almost feel like your whole business is riding on it, so right because it’s not just a social interaction, which is scary enough, but it is a social interaction and it’s a very intimidating social interaction. And it’s also your business is on the line, right, like it could change the direction of your business, and there’s no pressure there at all.
Louise: Man, just right, no pressure and also just all the technical things that might go wrong. Or for me, you know, one of the big things was like what if there’s outside noise? Like you know, during this recording I’ve had a dump truck in the alley that might have come to on the recording. A plane flew over, so I was really scared of those things too and it’s like those things are gonna happen, mistakes are gonna happen, but it’s sort of how you can handle yourself under pressure. That counts. And that’s where the nerves can really inhibit that, where you maybe feel like you can’t be yourself or you can’t just laugh it off or you can’t. You know, maybe you’re not gonna be professional, you go down the rabbit hole of all that stuff. So I Really just tried to okay.
Here’s another thing that I do is I remind myself that everybody in the room at some point has had shit go sideways in whatever you’re doing. So if it’s a live direct session, somebody in that room has had something go sideways on their side that they’ve had to deal with. Right, like you’re not alone that in that, and you’re certainly not alone with your nerves and you’re, and everybody wants it to go well. So I think it’s just I don’t know that those are hacks. That’s just trying to remind yourself of the reality of the situation, because, although it feels like life or death, it’s not. Yeah, you know that’s true but it feels like it.
Yeah, I.
Brad: Thought I have about nervousness in stage fright is that, like right, nervousness comes from Not knowing right. It comes from, it comes from not. It comes not being able to control the outcome.
Yeah, and I find I find one of the best ways I have to control nervousness or to sort of Be on top of it is to be prepared Right, like if you’re, if you are 90% off book and you have to go out on stage, you’re gonna be frickin petrified right, because you know when you get out there there’s a good chance you could go up on a line. If you are a hundred and ten percent off book, like your off book cold, and you know it and you don’t even have to think about it and you you’re blocking and and you have confidence in the show and you have confidence in the director and the other performers on stage. Like that doesn’t mean stage fright isn’t there anymore, but it mitigates it to a huge degree.
Louise: Yeah.
0:33:46 – Brad: I in my experience.
Louise: It’s funny that you say that, because that was my second point. That went out of my brain was preparedness is just, you prepare yourself as much as you can for that one thing, and then you also remind yourself that Probably you’ve been preparing your whole life for certain things and that you have all of that behind you as well. So it’s not just that one moment, like remember that you, you’re the expert in the room for this, they’ve hired you for this.
Like and now we’re talking about that particular session or being on stage. It’s like you are the expert in the room as well. You’re not some schlep, you know so and I guess you know getting to that point is just that’s just a lifetime of lessons and experience and and I just don’t see my Introversion to really inhibiting me that much I just think that there are things that I could do more of if I could maybe get past it. But at the same time, like I said, I’m also more and more. I’m sort of like well, maybe it’s actually something to lean into, almost like nervousness, like if you’re not nervous going out on stage or having a live direct session, there’s no nerves. That’s probably not good.
Brad: Yeah, you’re probably. Yeah, no, no, that’s for sure. You’re either there for the wrong reason or you’re just so over it and bored with it. I guess so anyway One thing that I have. It’s sort of different than the, so I think in any industry, but especially in voiceover, we have a lot of conferences that are available to us right.
Louise: Right.
Brad: I get a lot out of them. I’m going to my third one in March in Atlanta and it’s scary. Right To land someplace and you’re there with hundreds to many hundreds. Voiceover conferences aren’t that large, but it feels very large and to land there and get something out of it when you know no one at all yeah, you’re there right.
And a couple of things that I’m finding helpful are one, try and establish relationships before you go right. So I know there are people within one of our voiceover Facebook groups. I know there are people within that group that are going, so I started a Facebook message group with those people so we could also because they’re nervous too. I’m sure a number of them are introverts as well, so the people who haven’t been can ask questions and we can sort of connect and that way when you get there on the first day, you your airplane lands and you roll into the convention center with a crew of people that you’re already connected to, right. I find that takes a lot of the, the sort of my, my sort of I call it my passive observer mode, like when I step back against the wall and I just shut up and I just sort of want everything Wallflower, yeah, like a high school dance, yeah.
Very familiar, which is my natural. Very familiar. Yeah, it’s my natural state when I go into something like this. So not only am I already connected to people, but I’m sort of like the organizer of this. You know, it could be six to 15 people, whatever, and then they look to you and once I’m in a role of responsibility, I don’t have time to be shy, right Like I. Yeah, yeah. So that’s, that’s one thing. I do Another thing.
Louise: And that goes back to your preparedness thing too.
Brad: It’s like yeah, that’s right, that’s true.
Louise: You don’t have to talk yourself out of your introversion. You just set up some things that are gonna kind of support you a bit, and whether that’s you know you’re acting stuff or you’re you know meeting people stuff, like yeah, I think that’s great, that’s a great tip.
Brad: Yeah, and another thing I like to do is pick one person to be my buddy to start right. Yeah, like just someone you’re randomly sitting next to at the opening session or whatever. Just start chatting with them and get to know them on a one to one level. So it’s not like they’re not like a random. They are a random person, but they’re not like it’s not like an intimidating because you’re sitting next to Marty and just start making a couple of comments Some good friends that I have now in the voiceover community came from that and then they know people, or you know people, and then you just start to like let those connections start to happen. So you don’t have to go there expecting to meet everybody, just go there expecting to like pick one target Schmuck, that’s gonna be your good friend, yeah exactly.
No, I love that. That’s awesome. Yeah, and I don’t mean to do that in an artificial sense, right, you’re not like, oh, you’re like, I’m just gonna use you as, but be you know, you’re genuinely making your first friend and all it takes is one friend and then things tend to become more comfortable and spiral out to more social.
Louise: I think Absolutely, that’s what works for me, yeah, and I think you can’t help but be genuine.
Brad: I mean, I think as an introvert I would struggle to be kind of fake, because then I’m I don’t know, that maybe doesn’t make sense, but no, I think that does make sense and I think that’s that may be one thing that makes it makes intimate sort of contact with a stranger difficult for us because we’re so afraid of being disingenuous, not genuine.
Louise: Yeah, in small talk I can’t do the small talk.
Brad: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Louise: And those are the skills. You’re like in a thing and people are like all right, let’s go around the room and it should just be. I like I want to die, oh my God, or murder everyone.
Brad: I do a whole episode on how we feel about ice breakers and get to know yous. Oh my God, no, and it’s so unfair. It’s like cause the person leading it is always like, first of all, they’re just looking for something to fill time right, like and cause I think they’re supposed to do that, but there’s no consideration for the fact that that is really really difficult for some time for some people.
And I really appreciate group leaders who say we’re not going to do it because or we’re going to do it, but if you want to opt out, no problem, or we’re going to do it.
Louise: But even that is like shitting Cause. It’s like okay, so you’re like the one person in the room is like I’m sorry, I don’t have to take out like all eyes around you at that point, like what is wrong with this person? Every single person in the room is like an extrovert and they’re like you’re weird.
Brad: I guess what I’m trying to say and maybe that wasn’t a good example I’m trying to say is there are session, you know, people who can lead sessions and help people get to know each other at the beginning, without it being so artificial and so ingenuous and so like, like contrived and fake and painful for people.
Louise: Yeah, I like an organic connection myself. I don’t like the contrived you know, yeah, well, hey, we should talk about how we actually connected.
Brad: Sure, do you remember? Wait, no, not offhand. How did we so?
Louise: well, it was about three years ago.
Brad: Yeah.
Louise: And the way that I remember it is. I think we were in a mutual voiceover Facebook group, yep and I think somehow we recognized each other, as you know, weirdos or like. In high school, I was like part of like the freak mob. Because we wore like duck marts and cure t-shirts and stuff.
Brad: I wore Converse All-Stars that were different colors, like I would wear red on one side.
Louise: Oh, I also wore my Converse All-Stars.
Brad: It was the 80s, you could get around that, oh, yeah, yeah. No, high school for me was the 90s I know.
Louise: I’m older than you are. Anyways, are you older than me, oh?
Brad: Yeah, okay.
Louise: Well, but yeah, we were part of that same Facebook group and then and you actually reached out to me, you DM’d me and you were like would you want to do like an accountability buddy kind of thing?
Brad: And we just see you were my schmuck, you were my one person that I was reaching out to, but that no, but that just demonstrates what I’m saying. Right, like I did, I saw a person that I thought seemed super smart, super genuine, super friendly.
ouise: And then you decided to reach out to me instead.
Brad: But I, and then I reached out to you because they were busy. Yeah, exactly, no, no, and I just I and you know, and it’s hard to make that for initial, but I, you know, I just sent you a message and was trying to play it off like a, like cool or whatever, but, um, yeah, but it was just that, like hey, do you want to be, do you want to be study partners?
Louise: basically, yeah, and actually I think the the thing, one of the things that I remember the most about you reaching out, was you were really um, you were really honest and upfront. You were just like I’m really struggling with X, y and Z or something and I I would really like to connect with someone and you seem really cool or something, and I just was like that. That was, and I don’t remember exactly how you worded it or whatever, but I just remember thinking this is really genuine person and um yeah, which I think is another hack right, I think that’s another is honesty, like it really takes people back when you’re honest.
Brad: But as an introvert who I don’t mean everyone’s like this, I don’t know but as an introvert who really values honesty and genuineness, uh, to offer that to somebody right, it’s kind of a a pretty powerful opening and I’m not saying it was manipulating you, that’s kind of sounds manipulative. But to allow yourself to be free to to do that, to really just share honesty with someone and say, hey, I’m going to admit something to you as a way to start a dialogue that I’m hoping we can have to develop a friendship.
Louise: Well and because, at the end of the day, if that, if that, if your honesty and your vulnerability does not resonate with the person you’re reaching out to, or whomever, they’re not your person, they’re not going to be. You know and you know right away. You’ve not wasted any time, right, like yeah.
Brad: Yeah yeah, it’s like dating, you know, I guess we could. That’s a whole different topic that we should not get into.
Louise: But you know, first date, the honest, open to yourself. Thankfully you’re not a servicer in that world anymore. My God, that’s right yeah.
Brad: Well, you know what? What do you think? Was this our first episode? I know this was our first episode.
Louise: I don’t think that ended too abruptly, but I feel like we’ve. Yeah, yeah, I think this it’s. We’re almost at 45 minutes.
Brad: Yeah, this was fun, this was really good.
ouise: I’ve really enjoyed it and I feel like we covered some stuff that kind of maybe took me by surprise a little bit. They came out and hopefully when I listen back to it I’m not completely mortified by my by me, I mean you’re gonna ignore that.
Brad: I’ll just erase all of my dialogue, and it’ll just be you, it’ll just be me, and then you just cut out the spaces in between.
Louise: I think that makes a lot of sense. Or I’ll just like re-record my entire interaction so that it sounds perfect. You’re gonna write it out. Speaking of an emulation, you’re gonna like write a script for yourself, exactly, yeah, I don’t know, louise, it sounds a little ready. It sounds like you’re reading Was that AI? Oh God, we’re both AI.
Brad: We should have said that up front. I know we’re supposed to disclose AI. We’re both AI. We’re both chat GPT with different voice Actually isn’t there a new term for it?
Louise: now, people, it’s politically incorrect to say AI now. It’s like it’s not artificial intelligence, it’s like advanced and I don’t know what it is. It’s not artificial anymore.
Brad: I do not get me started talking about AI. I have so many thoughts about it. Louise, it’s not a podcast episode. That’s a whole different podcast. So I think, we’d better wrap it up now before.
Louise: I dive into that. Let’s wrap it up now.
Brad: Well, I hope this was helpful. I hope it was to me. I hope it was to you. It was to me.
Louise: And I think I mean, at the end of the day, even if no one listens to this, I’m getting a lot out of it and we’re talking about things that we don’t actually talk about, because we meet once a week. For anyone who is listening, we actually meet once a week to talk about how things are going with our voiceover businesses, so this has been really great to kind of well just lost one dream I’m leaving you hanging, I’m letting you hang, I’m not helping, I don’t know what you’re saying. Wow, no, I was trying.
Brad: I was internally. I was trying to help you, but I couldn’t figure out what you were. Yeah.
Louise: I don’t even know. It just kind of dropped off into oblivion, like most of my thoughts, okay.
Brad: Let’s wrap it up. Oh, you know what we need like a closing tagline. We didn’t prepare enough to have that Something like you know.
Louise: Well, maybe we can record it after the fact.
Brad: No, I think each episode we should see how far we’ve gotten with coming up with one.
Louise: Okay, on the spot it could be like a progressive thing.
Brad: Yeah, like, um, like. It could be like um uh with the name is inside voice.
Louise: using our outside voice, I don’t know.
Brad: All right, that’s it for this week, and we’ll use that this week and then, if we come up with a better one, we’ll try next week to see if we can come up with something else.
Louise: Should we say it together then, because it’s the tagline yeah, sure.
Brad: Or you say the first part and I say the second part.
Louise: Okay, okay, this has been inside voice.
Brad: And we’re using our outside voices.
Louise: That wasn’t it. That’s not what I said, oh shoot.
Brad: What did you say?
Louise: This has been inside voice, using our outside voice. Oh, okay, got it, got it, got it. Okay, try it again. This has been inside voice, using our outside voice. Nice, nice, yeah Okay.
Brad: Bye, thanks Bye.